Fleetmaster
Scribe
Ultras just got interesting!
Posts: 38
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Post by Fleetmaster on Oct 10, 2004 9:40:41 GMT -5
For my new world, part of the fluff is going to be about how the noble families once competed as to who could build the largest and grandest imperial cathedral on the world. This set me thinking about the layout and design of such a structure. I IMAGINED (this is non canon fluff) that: Imperial churches would be similiar to Christian churches of the middle ages in layout. The Christian church is built in the shape of a cross, so possibly the Imperial Church is built in the form of a very stylised Eagle, like the famous WH40K logo. the congregation enter through doors in the "wing-top" wall and sit in the "wing" area (symbolic, plus a lot of room for lots of the Emperors flock). Most of the service would be carried out on the eagles "torso" area, with the high altar (behind a screen, again as in many old churches) in the eagles "tail" area. Of course this means the holiest area is in the eagles bottom . What does everyone think? Does anyone have any "canon" fluff or more well known fluff on this subject?
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Post by Dazo on Oct 18, 2004 10:43:27 GMT -5
I think they would be more like the cathedrals/churches you see today, with the same layout only more gothic and gargoyle encrusted.
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Post by CELS on Oct 18, 2004 12:37:01 GMT -5
Looking at artwork by GW, I don't think the cathedrals of the Imperium have the structure you talk about. They seem to have pretty standard architecture, if you ask me. I like your thought though, but a church in the shape of an eagle would look incredibly bizarre, and would probably be very difficult to construct, as opposed to christian churches. Of course, it doesn't mean that it is impossible, but I have doubts about such structure being the norm. Looking forward to hearing more about this new world though
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 18, 2004 12:41:46 GMT -5
Is not a cross a highly stylised 'eagle' already, out of interest? Two wings... head... tail... ?
But please continue with the thought... the 'somatic memory' of rituals is a particularly fascinating topic and would add a bit of depth to the ASP...
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Post by Dazo on Oct 18, 2004 13:03:16 GMT -5
Yes, indeed the impression is given in many BL books that that is exactly what the imperial aquila is, as when they make the sign of the aquila, if you think about it, very catholic
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 18, 2004 13:44:41 GMT -5
Is that were you you wrap your thumbs together, spread your fingers and flex them away from your body going "Caw, caw"? If you take a gander at, say, Durham cathedral the main entrance is in the 'bottom' (north door at the 'base' of the cross)... the altar is to the east in the 'head'... Rather simplistic imagery for ascension in the Imperial Cult with the 'power' in the head, etc. Should be pretty simple to bastardise Christian ritual into something that is appropriately 40k... heck, one could draw from a wider range of 'mythologies' to create some truly interesting and unique intepretations... Up to the challenge, Fleetmaster?
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Post by CELS on Oct 18, 2004 14:49:14 GMT -5
Sounds potentially cool, as long as one is not too obvious. Also, people will be joking about entering the anus of the eagle if you give them half a chance As for the execution of the aquila, I believe it is done by wrapping your thumbs around eachother, flexing your fingers, and holding your palms to your chest If you ask me, it's pretty cool
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 18, 2004 19:40:57 GMT -5
As for the execution of the aquila, I believe it is done by wrapping your thumbs around eachother, flexing your fingers, and holding your palms to your chest If you ask me, it's pretty cool LOL... anything that allows you to appear penitant and still reach for the double-bolt guns in underarm holsters, hey? And people can make a joke out of anything, generally, depending on how sick you want to get!
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Fleetmaster
Scribe
Ultras just got interesting!
Posts: 38
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Post by Fleetmaster on Oct 22, 2004 15:21:35 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance...what does "somatic memory" mean?
I'll get the creative nodes going for more on imperial churches. Perhaps Imperial churches would be more "crosslike" than I originally thought, and they would certainly be far easier to build. But perhaps the transepts would be proportionately larger than in a Christian church, as the Aquila's wings are bigger proportionately than the arms of a crucifix? And perhaps the foot of the cross little more than an entrance space, containing little seating...?
Hmm...
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Post by CELS on Oct 22, 2004 16:19:18 GMT -5
Excuse my ignorance...what does "somatic memory" mean? According to www.dictionary.com, somatic can mean [/li][li] Of or relating to the portion of the vertebrate nervous system that regulates voluntary movement. [/li][li] Of, relating to, or affecting the body, especially as distinguished from a body part, the mind, or the environment; corporeal or physical It really is an amazing website But I really do wish people wouldn't use fancy terms without explaining them to readers who might not have a clue.... Sounds good. Perhaps something like this, with the entrance on the bottom. . . . | ----+------ . . . | (Ignore the dots, please )
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Post by Lordof on Oct 23, 2004 5:45:43 GMT -5
I think they would be crosslike but with two small alcoves at the top near the alter
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 24, 2004 9:07:14 GMT -5
But I really do wish people wouldn't use fancy terms without explaining them to readers who might not have a clue.... Looking things up in a dictionary is a good thing. Expanding the ole vocabulary is also a good thing... I remain unrepentent. Oh yes, and you could also check out the map at the beginning of Crossfire for inspiration from a canonical source...
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Fleetmaster
Scribe
Ultras just got interesting!
Posts: 38
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Post by Fleetmaster on Nov 1, 2004 3:25:42 GMT -5
Lordof, I like to get peoples ideas, but could you also say why there would be two small alcoves near the altar? Quite possibly the "Wings" of the church would be about twice as long as the "head" and the "tail". Any fluff on the subject of church interiors/exteriors (esp. decoration) would be cool! The problem is that, the more I think, the more i realise how little I or anyone else know about religion in the imperium. Is there one holy book? I know about the sermons of Sebastian Thor etc, but is there an equivalent of the Bible, etc? And days (most religious practices set great store by the calendar). Do they work from terran days or their local ones (I prefer the terran days idea, its just...cooler). What are the names for terran days in the 41st millenium? What robe styles/ colours do priests wear? My brain is hitting meltdown, so i'll sign off now ,
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Post by Kage2020 on Nov 1, 2004 12:11:12 GMT -5
Lordof, I like to get peoples ideas, but could you also say why there would be two small alcoves near the altar? Symbolic manifestation of the two heads of the Imperial would be my guess...
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Fleetmaster
Scribe
Ultras just got interesting!
Posts: 38
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Post by Fleetmaster on Nov 2, 2004 2:48:45 GMT -5
Yeah, That sounds about right.
Chapter 1: Physical layout of Imperial Churches.
Throughout the Imperium, there are millions, perhaps billions, of Chapels and Churches dedicated to the God-Emperor, and each of these is linked to one of the many great Cathedrals. Design for these places of worship is, like many aspects of Imperial life, controlled strictly, and even places of worship at the opposite ends of the galaxy share many characteristics. The Church described below is one of these "Administratum standard" buildings.
When viewed from above the Church is formed of a short nave and High Altar area, with two long transcepts protruding from either side. In some larger churches there is an alcove on either side of the High Altar area, which symbolises the two heads of the Imperial Eagle. In fact, the entire shape mirrors that of the Aquila, with the two large transepts acting as wings.
From ground level, there are three entrances to the building. One of these is in the end of the short nave area, and there is one in either end of the "wing" areas (transepts). Most of the Churchgoers are seated on benches within the "Wings", symbolising the protection that only worship of the Emperor can provide.
In most churches citizens must, in effect, rent their benches each standard Terran year. Wealthy or prominent citizens can also hold comfortable, elevated box pews either side of the Transept entrance door/s. The nave, or "tail" area is open and bare, and is often thronged with travellers passing through or those who are too poor to afford a bench (It is, of course, still a dreadful sin not to come to Church regularly).
The high altar area is concealed from the assembled citizenry by a high screen, and it is Forbidden on pain of death for any citizen to cross into this sanctified and holy area. Such screens are almost always highly decorated with devotional symbols and images of angels and saints. The priest's one vehicle for communication is the pulpit which protrudes through the screen. There is generally one pulpit on either side of the screen (I need a good name for it), one for the priest and another for one of his acolytes, who often provides High Gothic chants and readings.
Behind the screen lies the High Altar. Most citizens only gain tantalising glimpses of this "Holy of Holies" which is generally a statue of the Imperial Eagle or, in the oldest Churches, of the Emperor as he was in the Great Crusade. The side niches which exist in many Churches are generally shrines to saints with a local connection, or those whom the the Church is named after.
What do you think?
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