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Post by CELS on Dec 21, 2004 9:56:58 GMT -5
Glad to see you're picking this up again, Sojourner. Please send me the Excel document!
Oh, and what do you mean by capital in total as a proportion of the assets of Anargo? Maybe this will be evident when I get the document...
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Post by Sojourner on Dec 21, 2004 10:02:37 GMT -5
What I mean by this, CELS, is how much would all the material assets on that world be worth if they were sold on the open market, relative to the total assets of the Anargo system? This does not include unharvested raw materials or the people themselves, incidentally. Unless slaves are an official commodity on that world. Obviously we have no measure of currency so comparisons like this are the only way of quantifying, but speaking in terms of the capital world seems like a good place to start.
Sorry, could have been more clear.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 21, 2004 10:18:09 GMT -5
Well according to my most probably flawed maths, my world of Corionis has a thingie of 141% greater than Anargo, firstly is that allowed and secondly is that likely (it has a population of 60 billion by the way)
Edit: are we going to be calculating the system as a whole or just the main world itself.
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Post by Sojourner on Dec 21, 2004 10:22:54 GMT -5
Depends whether you want the system or the individual world as a single entity in terms of trade. It should work for either, but we'll see what the powers that be say.
And incidentally, when you say 'thingie' I need to know precisely what you mean. Man-hours/month of labour?
Having a value higher than Anargo for this is perfectly plausible, even if your population is lower, depending on who works and for how long. If you have slave miners working twelve hour shifts from the day they can walk to the day they die, then you'll get a lot of raw labour out of them, which is all we're considering. It doesn't matter that their production will probably be fairly puny compared to an advanced, industrialised workforce, this is for the other sub-tables.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 21, 2004 10:30:24 GMT -5
Yes thats what I mean.
So this is the basic figure we use for deciding how much the primary, secondary industries contribute, we take a % of the workforce number and assign it to the industry we wish to have on the planet. Did that make sense, so an agri world for example might dedicate the whole lot to agriculture, and none to any of the other catagories.
Jingo by any chance
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Post by Zholud on Dec 21, 2004 10:44:26 GMT -5
Well we still need to set values for what is actually tradeable first. Oh, the system will work in other way. I’m yet to get my hands on it, but general idea is as follows: - Trade is a function of GWP per capita and modifiers. It should firstly increase with GWP level and than decrease (we now getting share of export in GWP). This rules out medieval worlds (low GWP – not enough for trade) and high-tech self sustained civilised worlds. Positive modifiers are mine and hive worlds – they need stuff or need get rid of the stuff.
- Export= Import… we’re taking about long run here, thus constant deficit leads to bankruptcy and constant surplus leads to the fact that others have deficit, thus see above.
- export is divided with dice rolls on 4 broad categories – resources (ores, etc.), agriculture, manufacturing and services. Exact procedure is yet to be defined. Same thing for import
- bilateral trade if a function of exports of each world and distance between then. Sum of each planet exports to planet A has to be equal 100%. I’m yet to decide how to make this.
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Post by Sojourner on Dec 21, 2004 10:44:54 GMT -5
Yep, that's it. If you said say, 90% of the planet's labour is devoted to agriculture you'd insert 0.9*total labour. It doesn't necessarily have to add up, you may have miscellaneous activities on your worlds that don't appear there, as long as the sum of the industries isn't greater than the total, obviously.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 22, 2004 7:06:59 GMT -5
So do the other feilds need to be carefuly calculated or do I just have to ascribe arbitrary numbers to them, this is the maximum production capacity/units/month i'm talking about, and would a planets tech level have any bearing on it.
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Post by Sojourner on Dec 22, 2004 9:04:16 GMT -5
Tech level in terms of 'return per man-hour' and the labour capacity will be factors of the production capacity final value. I'm not sure exactly how the final result will be derived because I'm not sure what units we're working in.
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Post by Zholud on Dec 24, 2004 2:40:11 GMT -5
So do the other feilds need to be carefuly calculated or do I just have to ascribe arbitrary numbers to them. The numbers are in no way arbitrary, they are calculated on the basis of UWP. I’m sure if you look hard enough, you’ll find the exact method somewhere on the forum.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 24, 2004 5:14:09 GMT -5
Are you using the spread sheet sojouner provided zholud, I have worked out the total man hours available per month on all of my worlds, and ascribed a % of that number to the various industry fields. What I was asking was how to use those numbers in working out the total number of output units produced by each industry per month. the only thing on the UWP that might be useful in that equation is the tech level, but how to use it, thats what I need to know.
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Post by Sojourner on Dec 24, 2004 6:21:39 GMT -5
At the moment this probably won't integrate properly with the UWP. That's a given, and at the moment I don't care. This exercise is basically to test the principle of the thing, not to produce a finished system. I would appreciate if a number of people would participate in this and at least fill in the first section i.e. the labour potential, because whatever the UWP says, this must be universally true. What I hope can be done is to rationalise what we know from the UWP in terms of numerical factors of the total production output, that is, constants for each world by which to multiply to find an actual meaningful value. What I need to know to proceed is: - How we measure material production - kilograms, barrels, individual units? Do these units need to be uniform across the board or can we use the most appropriate for each class?
- In what form the production rate increases with technology level - does a jump from any tech level to the next correspond to a fixed or a proportional change in production rate due to technology, or something else?
- Can tech level be broken into different aspects? Automation, labour management, etc?
- Are there other factors in the UWP which can be converted to production modifiers - do things like law level indicate usable variations in social structure which will affect production efficiency?
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Post by Dazo on Dec 24, 2004 6:27:58 GMT -5
You might also want to think about adding what effect the starport might have on these numbers aswell sojourner, as a good starport might increase trade or at least decrease costs associated with it.
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Post by Sojourner on Dec 24, 2004 6:29:30 GMT -5
That's for a later stage, I think. I'm not concerning myself with the trade system just yet, I'll settle for sorting out the production quotas for the moment.
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Post by Zholud on Dec 24, 2004 7:03:30 GMT -5
- How we measure material production - kilograms, barrels, individual units? Do these units need to be uniform across the board or can we use the most appropriate for each class?
Measure in abstract currency units.
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