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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 21, 2004 19:36:38 GMT -5
Name is optional, but all this thread is meant is as a means of discussing the composition of worlds (industrial, civilised or whatever), possible identities (i.e. UWP) of the 'Anargan Spine'. This is designed merely as a concept to be able to put Anargo on the economic map and give, for some, a reason that it should be the 'capital' that it was originally envisaged (since tradition and imposition are not sufficient). One obvious fulcrum around which the Anargan Spine will be Anargo Secundus, which is now nominally the 'second' adeptus mechanicus Forgeworld and the centre of 'warp ship' production in the Anargo sector. (This does not mean that warp ship production does not occur elsewhere, just that the major component of that ship - the warp drive - is produced here or, alterntively, brought in at even greater expense from outside of the sector.) So, throw out some concepts.  (Oh yes, you might also want to check out the Anargo Buffer Zone thread.) |
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Post by CELS on Dec 21, 2004 20:17:11 GMT -5
Two concepts. I haven't selected an UWP yet, since I don't know which UWPs I can choose from at the moment. Depends on the size of the Anargo sector. Concept I - Dictatorshit This is the world that no one wants to visit. The world is very warm and tidally locked. People live on the dark side of the world, because the warm side is so dangerous that even with protective gear, you won't last long. (Out of interest, all the high-security prisons on this world are located on the warm side) The world has a very high population and needs to import great quantities of food regularly, especially during the dry seasons. The food situation is nowhere as desperate as on hiveworlds, however. It is categorised as an industrial world. The world is ruled by a rather unpopular dictator. Of course, you'd never guess that he was unpopular if you were an ignorant visitor. You either praise him, shut up or get shot up The dictator and his 'nobles' are extremely powerful and wealthy, and to plot against them is to beg for a long and painful death. The world is in many ways similar to the Soviet union. It is a world with great resources, and from the many monuments and parades in honour of the dictator and the nobles, you'd think it was wealthy, but the majority of the people live under miserable conditions. The population of this world is extremely religious, and fanatically loyal to the Ministorum. Obviously, this is connected to the living conditions mentioned above. Soldiers from this world have a reputation for being mindless drones or brave souls, depending on how you choose to look at it. Basically, if someone with a higher rank tells them to commit suicide, they won't even raise an eyebrow before they pull the trigger. It's scary. Concept II - Nothingville Orbitting a huge gas giant around a rather warm and orange K-class star, there are no less than three agri-worlds that cover the need for food in the Anargo subsector and then some. These agri-worlds are very traditional; they have an extremely low population, a somewhat low gravity, a high number of servitors, and enough food to choke the Eye of Terror. Very little actually goes on in this system, except for the constant stream of ships coming to collect their tithes, the occassional Imperial patrol, and the odd attack from pirates, aliens or chaos cults. Interestingly, most of the lands on these worlds are owned by offworlders such as nobles on Anargo, wealthy Navigator houses, etc. The governor of the world is responsible for taxing these landowners, but the tax isn't too high, so a lot of luxury goods are produced and exported in private ships. One of the agri-worlds is actually categorised as a garden-world, as eventhough it's main commodity is agri-culture, most of its lands are owned by the extremely wealthy of the Anargo sector. Here you can find retired Lord Generals of the Imperial Guard and their families, owners of interstellar corporations who run their business empires with a lazy hand from afar, Imperial nobles on vacation and other celebrities. Needless to say, the security is very high. |
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Post by Sojourner on Dec 22, 2004 7:36:32 GMT -5
For 'Nothingville' if your security is high and the patrons wealthy I'd suggest the presence of a large number of very good jet pilots. The only way to get across a planet quickly is an atmospheric or transatmospheric aircraft. Personal and military transport, light goods, and fighters with a VTOL capacity.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 22, 2004 18:56:53 GMT -5
I cannot say that I'm overtly sold on the way that you represented your concepts, CELS. Furthermore, tidally locked worlds have a freezing dark side. The more normal location for habitation is the twilight 'band' around the world.
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Post by CELS on Dec 22, 2004 20:35:24 GMT -5
I cannot say that I'm overtly sold on the way that you represented your concepts, CELS. I cannot say that I'm overtly happy about your short reply. Unless you have something more to say, I'll just salute and leave the Anargo subsector for other people to build. I would think that this depends. If the bright side is hundreds of degrees warm, the dark side could probably be rather temperate. And to be fair, this part of the concept is similar to that of Mordia, the hiveworld. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 27, 2004 19:16:47 GMT -5
Tidally locked worlds... I do believe that Destecado did offer an alternative explanation about this although it would require significant movement away from the Guide. This is not necessarily a bad thing. With that said, the 'traditional' approach to tidally locked worlds works upon the principles of hundreds of degrees on the sun side, hundreds of degrees below on the dark side and inbetween in the middle depending on rotational period, temperature flux between the two.
As to Mordia? GW world. 'Nuff said, for the most part. They're not interested in science or even verisimilitude from some of the 'fluff' that they've published. That was kind of the point here, again for the most part.
As to your comment about 'lack of comment', could it be that I was rushed that night? Furthermore, your post was basically talking about a type of government. There is little to really respond to that.
As to the first Concept the only thing that I can really comment on is that the Anargo subsector was seen as being generally against the adeptus ministorum and might not be suitable for such a stalwart supporter of it...
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Post by CELS on Dec 28, 2004 6:20:42 GMT -5
As to your comment about 'lack of comment', could it be that I was rushed that night? That's really besides the point. What I was saying was that unless you had something more to say, then I didn't have anything more to say either. This shouldn't really be a problem if you were rushed and really had other comments. Not just government, but yes, the government took up a lot of space. That is because the government, in this concept, has a major impact on society. Heavy propaganda, brainwashing, gestapo tactics, etc. In the Imperium, I don't really see how or why a whole subsector - the capital subsector of an ancient sector, no less - would be such a stalwart opposer of the Ministorum. Another point to consider is that there will probably be ten worlds in the Anargo sub, if not more. This is one. And I assume you were rushed this time too, since you didn't comment on the other concept. Or should I just assume that you didn't have anything to say, because there was too little information? Or should I assume that you didn't say anything, because it seemed fine? Again, I don't want to force concepts on you. If they're not your cup of tea, that's absolutely 100% acceptable. I'll just take a bow and use them somewhere else, if I do use them. You were asking for suggestions, and I made two. Take it or leave it, really |
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 28, 2004 17:40:42 GMT -5
That's really besides the point...and really had other comments. I'm going to have to ask, since I found it mildly... annoying, more so since it seemed out of character. (And this was the source of the lack of fondness on 'selling' the concept.) Was the misspelling of 'dictatorship' deliberate? The 'p' and the 't' key are, after all, some ways apart... Heavy propaganda, brainwashing, gestapo tactics, etc. I find the idea appealing because it forms a caricature of the society and government of the Imperium itself, although some argue that all the Imperium is like that... Out of interest, is this a response to all the worlds that are seemingly suggested that are 'utopias'. All the worlds of the Imperium, that is? In the Imperium, I don't really see how or why a whole subsector - the capital subsector of an ancient sector, no less - would be such a stalwart opposer of the Ministorum. I selected the wrong word, but the impact of the adeptus ministorum is lessened as a result of the history of the world. This has subsequently expanded to other parts of the subsector, although it is not totally exclusive. Remember that the adeptus ministorum is just one part of the Imperium and an organisation whose influence can be modified, just as the influence of, say, the adeptus mechanicus or the adeptus ministorum is lessened on a Cardinal world and (arguably) the surrounding space. Preference also comes into play. Just as some people like thinking about the 'religious' angle of the Imperium and model the entire thing on a religious structure, I'm more for disestablishmentarianism (just in case: separation of church from state). Another point to consider is that there will probably be ten worlds in the Anargo sub, if not more. This is one. I would have to be sold on the concept of a 'hive' of the adeptus ministorum based upon the totality of the subsector, then. Oh, and depending on the numbers involved... A hiveworld dedicated to the adeptus ministorum? Not for me... And I assume you were rushed this time too, since you didn't comment on the other concept. Mainly because there was not that much to comment on. A 'standard' agriworld with the spin that it or they surround a gas giant. Develop it away if you want to... |
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Post by CELS on Dec 29, 2004 9:36:23 GMT -5
I'm going to have to ask, since I found it mildly... annoying, more so since it seemed out of character. (And this was the source of the lack of fondness on 'selling' the concept.) Was the misspelling of 'dictatorship' deliberate? The 'p' and the 't' key are, after all, some ways apart... Oh for the love of...  Like I explained in my post, earlier in this thread, it was deliberate. It is the name of a song by the now political metal band Sepultura, and it was meant as a joke. Wargamers tend to like heavy metal, so I hoped that someone would get it. But no one did. I sincerely apologise for my apparent lack of humor and filthy language. It shan't happen again I don't really see why this can be seen as a caricature of the Imperium, more than any other worlds in the Anargo sector. How can one world define the Imperium? I think that there are some worlds in the Anargo sector that are a lot 'brighter' than most worlds in the dark Imperium. I've gone and pitched a concept for one that is 'darker' than most worlds in the Imperium. I just thought it would be interesting. Apparently, it's not. Fair enough. Really!  Put it like that, and it makes sense. Still, there's always room for exceptions, I think. For example, you have a lot of religious secularisation going on in North America, but you still have some 'religious strongholds' that don't quite follow these changes. The amish are a famous example. Still, it's your subsector, and it's up to you to approve exceptions like this. I'm sure I might have a problem if someone suggested a powerful anti-Adeptus Mechanicus world in the Archaios subsector, for example. Well, on second thought, that might be quite interesting, but it was just an example Perhaps you can suggest an alternative then? If the religion is the problem, then perhaps the concept can work without it. You can still brainwash people without religion. I assume you were just exaggerating when you called it a hiveworld, since I specifically wrote that it was not. It was supposed to be an industrial world, but it needed to import food because the planet was not very hospitable. Fuelled by your apparent enthusiasm, how can I not?  [/childish sarcasm] |
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 29, 2004 19:10:04 GMT -5
Like I explained in my post, earlier in this thread, it was deliberate. Ah, missed the comment for somewhat obvious reasons. In that case I understand, although remembering the general feature that we are meant to moderate language as much as possible. But I guess that "Dictatorshi*" wouldn't make as much sense... Since we all missed the joke anyway. (And incidentally I haven't listened to heavy metal since I was a teenager, so that probably puts that in context.) Wargamers tend to like heavy metal, so I hoped that someone would get it. But no one did. Ah yes, the proclivity for bands such as "Bolthrower" to release albums supposedly based or inspired by the universe of 40k... I don't really see why this can be seen as a caricature of the Imperium, more than any other worlds in the Anargo sector. By caricature I was referring to the process by which cartoonists, most commonly those who do 'portraits' of real people (the old TV programme Spitting Image springs to mind), take a feature and exaggerate it. If someone had a 'big nose' or, indeed, particularly sharp features, the caricaturist might draw the individual with an even bigger or particularly pointed nose. If you could find a Spitting Image and a real image of Margaret Thatcher (ex-UK Prime Minister) then you would see what I meant. For an example of this go here and you will see examples of (from the top down) Ronald Reagan, Mick Jagger and Gadaffi (sp.)... Anyway, the same with the 40k universe. There are aspects of 'total dictatorship' so it is illustrative to take these aspects and go 'too far' with them and, thereby, making a caricature of the 40k universe. It isn't definitively 40k, but rather taking one aspect and running with it... In some ways the representation of the eldar is a caricature of certain aspects of human culture. Indeed, the same can be said with many representations of alien cultures. The Imperium, arguably, is a caricature of humanity... I've gone and pitched a concept for one that is 'darker' than most worlds in the Imperium. I just thought it would be interesting. Apparently, it's not. Fair enough. Really! Erm, I was actually agreeing with you. The original government/law codes of Anargo suggested that it was this type of dictatorship but I didn't want to run with it... That is why I said that it would be interesting to see such a world, especially - as you say and as I agreed with you above - that it would be good to see such a world. It would also be valuable to see how you saw it integrating with the rest of the subsector given the fact that the thread is discussing the 'Trade Spine'. The joys of H&E is that it allows you to rapidly generate the world and concentrate on the 'more interesting' features of world generation...  Have you a suggested URL? (This will also help to determine the location of the Trade Spine, of which Anargo will be a part...) Put it like that, and it makes sense... but you still have some 'religious strongholds' that don't quite follow these changes. The amish are a famous example. Obviously, which is why I would need to see a more developed concept for it... Perhaps you can suggest an alternative then? If the religion is the problem, then perhaps the concept can work without it. You can still brainwash people without religion. As above, I just think that it must be done with care... Go with the idea and develop the concepts a bit more, post them and see how it goes. It might work, it might not. But at the moment it introduces another aspect of conflict and tension, so that is for the better... Of course, we wouldn't want to go too far down that particular route or the Anargo sector wouldn't work! I assume you were just exaggerating when you called it a hiveworld... Kinda. Just making a point that I didn't want such a populous adeptus ministorum infuenced world that a 'hiveworld' would produce. Even 'industrialised' as it is commonly represented might be pushing it (i.e. just sub-hiveworld population). Moderation is the way forwards, methinks. And that reminds me. I should take a look at Tryphon again even if just quickly... Fuelled by your apparent enthusiasm, how can I not? "Gas giant agriworld" referred to be "Nothingsville" is not inspiring... But the potential imagery is fascinating. |
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Post by CELS on Dec 30, 2004 12:11:26 GMT -5
Then at least neither concept is totally rejected. Obviously, you want to see more detailed concepts, but I must remind you again that I don't plan to build more Imperial worlds for a long while. Too much other stuff to do first, like the Inquisition and Adeptus Mechanicus. As for the UWP (or URL ), that depends on what's going to happen with the worlds Thorp, Urelsk, Cinisseca, Antares and Maeros, which are more likely to be within the Anargan Spine. If we expand the Anargo sector, then the new worlds are likely to become part of the 'Buffer zone', right? Anyway.. I'll need to see what happens with the rest of the Anargo subsector before I choose an UWP for the concepts above. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 31, 2004 1:30:54 GMT -5
It does raise the issue that - perhaps - it would be best to do as was done in another thread: discuss the premise of the Trade Spine itself and determine whether any of the worlds thus far submitted in Anargo subsector are suitable and, if not, where we might find them...?
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 11, 2005 16:39:20 GMT -5
"Nothingville" is currently masquerading as the Trivium system, a rather unusual combination of 'civilised world' and agriworld (or, rather, agriworlds) orbitting a gas giant in the habitable zone of a G-class star system (former Urelsk). It is one of the most important 'agriworlds' (?agrisystems) of the Anargo Trade Spine.
Other worlds currently include Anargo, Anargo Secundus and...? Tryphon perhaps?
Other suggestions and concepts are welcome.
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