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Post by Dazo on Jul 19, 2004 22:50:56 GMT -5
Ah yes, tis a wonderous place laddy to be sure
GAot, would that not mean you would have alot of adeptus mechanicus on this world studying and maintaining these devices, i can't see them just allowing the world to fall to wrack and ruin if it has all this glorious technology on it
Abit of food and they'ed soon perk up i'm sure. Anyway there are about three agri worlds in meksum and so far the only hive they supply is Meksum prime so why are they starving to death on Invictonburg
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Post by Philip on Jul 20, 2004 1:04:51 GMT -5
GAot, would that not mean you would have alot of adeptus mechanicus on this world studying and maintaining these devices, i can't see them just allowing the world to fall to wrack and ruin if it has all this glorious technology on it Perhaps the Adeptus Mechanicus striped out all the good stuff 10,000 years ago upon rediscovery (date can be changed)? =The Hive has lost much of its capability, void shields were removed in M30 and parts of the strike cannon in M31 (parts used to fix other systems on more important worlds), the Hivers didn't mind as they didn't work anyway, and Imperium retrofitted much of the hive with working but inferior technology: It does the same job but much bulkier and prone to failing. Abit of food and they'ed soon perk up i'm sure. Anyway there are about three agri worlds in meksum and so far the only hive they supply is Meksum prime so why are they starving to death on Invictonburg The agri worlds do not have enough surface area to produce enough food to feed trillions, and Invictonburg can't afford to feed them all anyway. Must be able to pay for it in same way? Prison world, refused dump, test ground for weapons? Perhaps the other worlds do supply enough food being 'good Samaritans' that they are, but the local warlords hoard most of it, and use it to control the population.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 22, 2004 1:16:48 GMT -5
I wish I could merge threads since the discussion is still overlapping between this one and the premise behind Phillips' hiveworld in general. To reiterate a quick list of points made on another thread: - The 'biosphere' form is just the approach taken on this specific world. The idea that it is a more generalised approach taken in the G/DAoT is problematic, not only in terms of the implications and 'logic', but also in terms of the application to the 40k universe.
- Hiveworlds in general are not predicated around initial military colonisation, nor around a single "mega strike weapon".
- Hiveworlds must produce and recycle their own food. Phillips' "hive concept" wonderfully concentrates on this as it should be. Food imports are, for the moste part, specialist and 'exotic' but which may still extend to billions of tons of produce every year.
- Given the spurious logic of hiveworlds in the first place, let us not extend this hand-waving to include a population in the high trillions. Thus let us keep it to the hundreds of billions, as suggested in the 'fluff', or perhaps the low American trillions.
Edited because, for some reason, I posted millions instead of billions for the population of hiveworlds.
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Post by Philip on Jul 22, 2004 2:50:37 GMT -5
Answers posted in the other thread.
Though there is much overlap I think the should remain separate. This, the Invictonburg threat is the 40K compliant version of the hive, the other one is the concept.
As for moving the thread, perhaps the 'STCS Hive: Emperor Class' should go in the 'Meta-concepts for the Anargo Sector Project' thread and the '=Hive World: Invictonburg=' thread in the 'Meksum - "Hiveworld Subsector" ' thread?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 22, 2004 3:08:06 GMT -5
zholud has indicated that he doesn't want another hiveworld in Meksum. As such it is currently shifted to Anargo.
The other thread will be shifted to World Building since it is unsuitable in "Meta" as it stands (i.e. it discusses a single hiveworld concept, not concepts for hiveworlds in general) and is not really OffT enough for General.
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Post by Philip on Jul 22, 2004 3:40:20 GMT -5
OK, is there a nasty world that you'd like to stick Invictonburg on?
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Post by Dazo on Jul 22, 2004 3:54:21 GMT -5
21/18/15 - K-V - XAC2225-7 Fl Lo 813 IM 060 This has the potetial to be very nasty, you'd have to modify population figures though
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 22, 2004 4:41:28 GMT -5
As mentioned previously (I'm fairly sure that it was in this thread), two systems are obvious based upon your initial criteria:
19/19/16 - M-V - X7C7000-0 Ba Fl Lo 001 IM 290
And:
21/18/15 - K-V - XAC2225-7 Fl Lo 813 IM 060
The first one is around a 'cold' star (M) while the second is around a star that is only slightly cooler than 'Sol' (i.e. stellar luminosity), though that depends upon the decimal classification.
The starports of both worlds are irrelevant, since it would be modified more than likely to a B-class. (Note: There is still some discussion on whether to include A-class in to the scheme and merely ignore the fact that, according to Traveller that should allow the construction of superluminal vessels...!)
The second system has a much higher mainworld, more than likely indicating that the gravity will be higher (dependent on the world type), while both have an "Insidious" atmosphere. Population, government, law and TTL are likewise irrelevant at this juncture given the concept of the world.
The second system also has an asteroid belt (mining for resources, though it only has Medium resource levels), and also three gas giants (useful for fuel). The first system does, however, have the highest resource value of the two...
The second system would be one which could have 'organically developed' (i.e. an inhabited world that became a hive), while the second one might lend itself more to imposition...
Choose which world and start a-world building.
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Post by CELS on Jul 22, 2004 5:04:44 GMT -5
Hive worlds are likely to be found on mineral-rich worlds, as their main commodity is that of industry, and it's cheaper to mine this on location, than import it from other systems or planets.
Go for the M-V, if you ask me.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 22, 2004 5:24:55 GMT -5
Although there is the idea that the system has been mined to such an extent over the millennia to reduce the mineral statistic? This would make the 'stat' a more recent determination of the adeptus terra but it is one way of slipping things through the UPW statistic system... As always, just takes a bit of imagination!
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Post by zholud on Jul 22, 2004 5:32:45 GMT -5
Go for the M-V, if you ask me. I would say that while dying (red old cold) stars are clearly favoured for the original cyberpunkish concept of hiveworlds is general, with all decadence and gothics, I guess two hiveworlds in the sector orbiting M-V is a little bit too much. Add on zholud has indicated that he doesn't want another hiveworld in Meksum. As such it is currently shifted to Anargo. Not exactly ... I just want to see more or less equal number of different kinds of worlds in all subs, because 5 hiveworlds in one sub and none in all others is strange... taking to the notion my desire to have dead hive and another hiveworld in Meksum sub, I guessed that others need a hive or two as well.
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Post by CELS on Jul 22, 2004 7:54:55 GMT -5
I would say that while dying (red old cold) stars are clearly favoured for the original cyberpunkish concept of hiveworlds is general, with all decadence and gothics, I guess two hiveworlds in the sector orbiting M-V is a little bit too much. Fair enough, but one must consider the number of M-V stars in the sector. But now that you mention it, I do wish to see other systems than the typical M-V, so I change my mind! Go for the K-V
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Post by Philip on Jul 23, 2004 4:00:21 GMT -5
M-V world with deep sun, I like it.
Now thinking about design, and how this hive came about (as I describe them);
As a GAoT Hive (or not) they are pretty good at looking after themselves, and building. After a bit of a problem with Chaos back in the fall, I'm thinking they picked themselves up, dusted themselves off and started putting things back together.
Could Invictonburg be the first colony founded in Anargo, perhaps loosing sector power to Anargo during the fall? (I'm thinking the Hive had a very serious daemon infestation problem: power may have been moved to Anargo to ensure effective government and in the light of the danger of Hives and their massive warp signature, power never got transferred back?)
Can it be a centrer for starship construction? (more below)
Mining, but what could they be mining? (Something valuable, not used in ship building?)
=40K Invictonburg Overveiw=
=Surface area= As an over all look, I'm thinking 60% of the surface is 60 story hive, all joined into one block, so the roofs form a continuous surface (Ideal for war gaming!) in effect a new 'ground level'.
=New Ground= On top of the roofs, up on the 'new ground' are all the administration/ governmental buildings and religious shrines and the peoples church (for stacks below) linked with paths, streets, ornate railings and lampposts etc.
=Spires= In this vast Hive are huge circular indents 200 km in diameter, (basically a cylinder cut out from the surface of the new ground all the way down to the lower levels, much like a 'crop circle'). Rinsing out of these circular indents are the towering spires of the noble houses. Three strike cannon (or not?) are situated around the Spire (or not?) and are controlled by the tower and separate from the rest of the Hive (Nobles are obsessive about maintaining control in all aspects). Base of Spires house the Adeptus Arbites (?)
=Church= In a similar vein but in 10 km diameter indents are the massive Gothic church complex of the noble families (also places of pilgrimage for the populous)
=Industo-Complex= Running the entire circumference of the equator is the Industo-complex of the ship yards and the munitions and ordinance factories.
Based on a grid design, trains running Longitudinally ferry workers to and from the yards to work out contracts similar to 'oil rig workers'.
Running latitudinally on the equator are multi lane rail tracks for ferry goods and equipment.
=Mining= The reminder of the surface is strip mine (The Hive is actually build on the old strip mines. As the strip mines expanded out, new hive was built onto the fully mined areas, the waste rock of the mining used in the plascrete of the Hive)
=Points= Noble Spires are Class Alpha CS. The rest of the Hive is Class Beta CS.
Hive roofs form the new ground to fight 40K on.
=Exports= Supplied fully armed, equipped and supplied IG with starship transport. ?-Mined Materials-?
Imports= Meat Materials for ship building Complex electronic systems? Fertilizer (to replace bodies of IG who do not return to Invictonburg) ?
=Sights of note= Comet damage in the northern hemisphere. Though quite a small impact the shock wave levelled a vast area of Hive, and the ejecta burying even more. Also reflected shock waves in the planet core caused structural damage on the exact opposite side of the planet (this was on of the collages of technical design, much information was lost, not by damage, but by an invasive 'security wipe' instigated by the AI system. Normally not a problem, as it just requests a re-download from Terra when it sure it hasn't been compromised, but then came 'the fall'.)
Sisters of Battle (?)
Many Chaos cults, mainly dedicated to Tzeentch.
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Post by Dazo on Jul 23, 2004 4:54:52 GMT -5
I think most mines on the surface would be played out by now, perhaps they mine the moons of the gas giant thats in the system or the moon/s of Invictonburg have become the new mines with it all being shiped back to be processed on Invictonburg. I can see the space lanes over the planet chok full of ore freighters and mining shuttles Rising out of the toxic seas like metal continents, cool, you need to figure out the atmospheric composition and tell us what the seas are made of these would all have to be enclosed as it wouldn't be possible to wonder around on the surface in such a hostile eviroment. How about compounds and chemicals as well, harvested from the oceans I depends on whether their is a mechanicus presence as it seems only they are allowed to built warp capable ships
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Post by Philip on Jul 23, 2004 7:52:39 GMT -5
First up, can I change the codes and by how much? The first world is a underwater rock and the second a giant dry planet with less than a 1000 people. I want to change all of the codes, can I do that? I think most mines on the surface would be played out by now, perhaps they mine the moons of the gas giant thats in the system or the moon/s of Invictonburg have become the new mines with it all being shiped back to be processed on Invictonburg. I can see the space lanes over the planet chok full of ore freighters and mining shuttles Depends on what they are mining! If it is under an 'ocean' (see below) strip mining would be much slower. I'm also thinking of removing all moons (reduce seismic stresses) and have no other planets, and replace them with huge asteroid fields in the inner orbit zones. Rising out of the toxic seas like metal continents, cool, you need to figure out the atmospheric composition and tell us what the seas are made of I was thinking of a mercury ocean only several hundred metres deep with a very thin silicate crust, if you stepped on it you'd fall through. I'm thinking the mercury has a suspension of partials in it like some fluorspar (to form hydrofluric acid?), for thickness, so it acts like quicksand. Quite a cool atmosphere composed mostly of nitrogen with fluorine and sulphur compounds with a lot of mercury vapour. Light acidic rain (would burn unprotected skin if exposed for long enough) these would all have to be enclosed as it wouldn't be possible to wonder around on the surface in such a hostile eviroment. Yep all enclosed (other worlds with better environments could have them open). I was toying with having a 'split atmosphere' dangerous below better up top (so you could get away with gas masks on the roofs). How about compounds and chemicals as well, harvested from the oceans Lots of mercury to get rid off? I'm thinking its a combination of something in the bedrock and in suspension in the mercury 'quicksand'. I depends on whether their is a mechanicus presence as it seems only they are allowed to built warp capable ships I was thinking they could build everything apart from the engine cores? Yes there would be a huge amount of Adeptus Mechanicus on this planet, but the engine core may require specialist materials.
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