|
Post by CELS on Jul 15, 2004 4:46:54 GMT -5
This might strike some as a poor argument, but why is this hiveworld the only one in the Imperium that is self-sufficient? Indeed, what is the point of having agri-worlds, if the Imperium has the technology to build self-sufficient biospheres that need only electricity to function? Why don't most high-tech worlds that aren't suitable for outdoor agriculture have such biospheres?
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jul 15, 2004 4:54:53 GMT -5
Yep, that's very definitely another point against them being self-sufficient.
Perhaps it would be best, Phillip, if you brought the PM discussion here. That way it would be open to everyone...
Furthermore, this is actually linked to the original thread that you posted. Perhaps we should discuss the world in question here and the concepts behind the hive in the original thread?
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Jul 15, 2004 4:58:27 GMT -5
Perhaps the system is only now begining to fail, with outside exports being required to prop up the system, what % or the planets surface is hive and what % is bio dome, because a large planet might well be able to cope if the base of a hive spire is say 400 sq miles, on a planetary scale thats insignificant compared to say 10,000 sq miles for a bio dome, but even this is small on a planetary scale
|
|
|
Post by Philip on Jul 15, 2004 5:00:12 GMT -5
This might strike some as a poor argument, but why is this hiveworld the only one in the Imperium that is self-sufficient? Because its from the Golden Age of Technology and they are hard to build. Maybe the Imperium has no choice in current 40K, maybe after 20,000 years the technology isn't tip top and it can't be replaced. Indeed, what is the point of having agri-worlds, if the Imperium has the technology to build self-sufficient biospheres that need only electricity to function? Why don't most high-tech worlds that aren't suitable for outdoor agriculture have such biospheres? They don't, I made it up, or rather mixed a lot of established ideas together. If the Imperum could do this why would they have a agri-worlds? The simple answer it that the wouldn't. Agri-worlds would be redundant. But what if the technology failed? If it no longer worked as it once did, then an agri-world would come in very handy. Perhaps the system is only now begining to fail, with outside exports being required to prop up the system, what % or the planets surface is hive and what % is bio dome, because a large planet might well be able to cope if the base of a hive spire is say 400 sq miles, on a planetary scale thats insignificant compared to say 10,000 sq miles for a bio dome, but even this is small on a planetary scale The Bio-Spheres are an internal part of the hive. Yep, that's very definitely another point against them being self-sufficient. Perhaps it would be best, Phillip, if you brought the PM discussion here. That way it would be open to everyone... Furthermore, this is actually linked to the original thread that you posted. Perhaps we should discuss the world in question here and the concepts behind the hive in the original thread? I'll organise and post them in the Hive thread, tacked onto my last post.
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Jul 15, 2004 6:19:56 GMT -5
Dear Philip! I'm extremely pleased with your choice of my sub-sector as a place for your Hiveworld but I suggest you to shift it to Forgeworld or Capital subsector... or others. The idea is that it is very strange when one sub-sector has 4 Hiveworlds, while all other subs togather don't have even one. But of course, I will comment on the hive and so on as if it was mine
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jul 15, 2004 11:41:48 GMT -5
Dear Philip! ...but I suggest you to shift it to Forgeworld or Capital subsector... or others... Although to be fair hiveworlds should be fairly rare! And perhaps the Sargassos might be an interesting place?
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Jul 15, 2004 12:17:24 GMT -5
Of course, the current idea is that post-Vandire heresy, most of the worlds in the Sargassos subsector were somewhat destroyed. Only the backwater worlds which did not play a significant part in the conflict were left standing. If you intend to make one of these surviving worlds a hiveworld, you must take into consideration that it would have gone from a small colony to a heavily populated hive world from something like M36 to M41. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's something one must consider.
Why not the Dorvastor sub though?
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jul 15, 2004 23:19:15 GMT -5
Well, there's always the Sargassos Gulf to consider. I'm still waiting on Destecado to have a look at the new position and content of the "New Sargassos Subsector"... after that it should be fairly easy to mark on the position of the Gulf and how it interacts with the Sargassos subsector itself. I might even try and play around with marking on the warp current and the Heart while I'm at it, though have a feeling that creating a f(x)=x n+ax n-1... etc. equation might be a bit of a bugger considering how meandering the current might be...
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Jul 16, 2004 0:13:21 GMT -5
And perhaps the Sargassos might be an interesting place? If you ask me – I guess more tech-advanced sub is a better choice – after all it is nice to have markets nearby production point = Hiveworld. Plus usually large cities are close to each other and we don’t have any hives near Anargo…
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jul 16, 2004 0:47:44 GMT -5
Yeah, but I'm not overtly fond of having Hives near Anargo! And as I've been discussing with Phillip via PM, I'm not overtly comfortable with some of the assumptions being made with the concept. There are, however, two worlds with Insiduous atmospheres in Anargo subsector including on in orbit around an M-class and one around a K-class. I really like the structure of the Hive but... some of the other stuff...
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Jul 16, 2004 5:07:45 GMT -5
There are, however, two worlds with Insiduous atmospheres in Anargo subsector including on in orbit around an M-class and one around a K-class. If you give the hive a place in Anargo sub, don’t give it on M-V star… unless you think it is normal to have the most densely populated planets orbiting almost dead stars… of course it has some decadence flavour in it, but still.
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Jul 16, 2004 12:18:24 GMT -5
Well, yes... I'm remembering what I intended to do with the location of the subsectors and what, through demand, I was required to do. <sigh> It's a bugger that M-class main sequence stars are the most common out there and GW's astrographic 'cluding' into subsectors...
|
|
|
Post by Philip on Jul 18, 2004 13:17:17 GMT -5
You are still talking about, ultimately, farming are you not? The production of carbohydrate/etc. and protein resources? You are still going to be limited by the area/volume that can be dedicated to this, as well inputs into the system in terms of fertiliser, etc. The Rack and Tray system is pretty space efficient and described in more detail in the STCS Hive: Emperor Class thread. At present a 80m Biosphere yields an area of 5km 2 for 'farming'. Using Biospheres would allow the building of 'Hives' that would support a population density of 72,000 per sq/km at 120 stories. World populations in the trillions is possible. Wonder what Brussie had to say about this since he had a problem of 90M being supported on an individual world, quite rightly in my mind... 90M? Is that 90 Million? Furthermore, this is actually linked to the original thread that you posted. Perhaps we should discuss the world in question here and the concepts behind the hive in the original thread? Excellent idea. Now back to Invictonburg. I'm in two minds on the current state of Invictonburg, after all the GAoT was a long time ago; On the one hand I like the idea that the Hive fell to Chaos in M25 (Age of Strife) and is now a deserted 'Ghost Hive' where brave salvage teams fuelled by greed for arcane technology try their luck (perhaps daemons are locked away in the Biosphere 'tombs'). Alternatively I like the idea that it has slowly degraded over the aeons, with vast areas of the Hive closed down. All of the Heavy Industry supplying the logistic chains of the GAoT Empire was lost when the Empire fell in M25. The Technology has largely failed, and any areas were it still functions is vastly overcrowded. Invictonburg is heavily dependant on other worlds to make up the food deficient, and failures in supply leads to riots and then famine. Terraforming never really tamed this world so growing food outside the hives is impossible as the Sun is too weak and the atmosphere poisonous. Everyone on Invictonburg wants to leave, and other worlds have to blockade it to stop smugglers from trafficking humans. Only the IG can remove people from Invictonburg, usually the most psychotic killing machines (gangs roam the streets killing people for fun and food).
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Jul 18, 2004 23:31:16 GMT -5
Why would the imperium want to stop people leaving, it sound like the hive is no longer a productive world so wouldn't they want to move the people to other worlds and colonies to boost populations Why would the guard only take the nutters, surely every able bodied man and woman would be wanted for the guard
|
|
|
Post by Philip on Jul 19, 2004 0:29:11 GMT -5
=Undesirables= The other worlds don't want them as the Hivers are psychologically traumatised and exhibit psychotic behaviour, and prone to cannibalism. Also the other worlds are prejudice towards Invictonburg and think they only have themselves to blame for their situation, after all the do had GAoT Hives.
The other worlds don't want the drama of housing them and rehabilitating them and who could blame them. IG take the nutters because in that situation they are them most 'sane', the others are 'broken spirited' resigned to a slow death of starvation. The gangs are fighting back.
Perhaps they have genetic defects that other world do not want introduced into their gene pool, perhaps an aversion to sunlight from living in hives for thousands of generations. An aversion to sunlight isn't a problem on Invictonburg, but a huge problem on the sunny shores of say, your world of Seleca III.
|
|