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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 8, 2005 13:56:31 GMT -5
The title is just to grab attention. This little ditty was brought to may attention on another board and I just love it! It's great! Absolutely great! I don't think that I can say it enough times nor use too few exclamation marks!! Kage
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Post by ZarkTheDamned on Feb 8, 2005 16:43:53 GMT -5
Wow, that is indeed a groovey what-if situation.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 8, 2005 17:22:40 GMT -5
I only skim-read it and it wasn't that badly written either! It was just the fact that it took a situation and extrapolated it to amusing/good result.
Anyway, just thought that I would share it with people.
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Post by malika on Feb 8, 2005 17:37:05 GMT -5
Dammit Kage!!! You got me thinking again!!!
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 8, 2005 17:49:13 GMT -5
Just goes to show that a good imagination can make even the most accepted bits of 'fluff' into a new image! That's the reason that I like it so much: the concept, if not necessarily the writing! It's also the reason that I didn't slam Angels of Darkness as much as everyone else seemed to. (And the reason that I say that BL novels can be seen as formulaic otherwise - no imagination!)
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Post by Philip on Feb 8, 2005 21:26:54 GMT -5
The title is just to grab attention. This little ditty was brought to may attention on another board and I just love it! It's great! Absolutely great! I don't think that I can say it enough times nor use too few exclamation marks!! This type of rumour has been going around for years now. I read ‘The Truth’, and the Inquisitor come across as weak minded (volunteering information/ unnerved by uncorroborated statements etc) and lax, considering he was dealing with an immortal he failed to secure the area or take proper steps to contain the ‘heretic’. Anyway, the only reason an Inquisitor would fall apart like that is under the influence of a Daemon, and the only daemonic power who plays those particular games is Tzeentch. Tzeentch is everywhere! ;D
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 8, 2005 22:52:01 GMT -5
This type of rumour has been going around for years now. I didn't even think it counted as such. Just a rather intriguing supposition. I read ‘The Truth’, and the Inquisitor come across as weak minded (volunteering information/ unnerved by uncorroborated statements etc) and lax... Then you did more than me at this point. I only skim read it. But - hell! - the author put it out there for free. Gotta give them kudos for this. At least they're not necessarily making a living from sub-standard material! With that said I was more impressed with the imagination... Tzeentch is everywhere! ;D <grin> I'm sure that he is.
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Post by DesertGhostExarch on Feb 9, 2005 3:39:40 GMT -5
This of course makes the question of exactly what the head-Battle Sister saw when she was escorted to the "throne room" more interesting...and of course, considering a number of blessed things used to be described as by-products of the Golden Throne.... ...and the implications of Horus being the entity spoken to by Jaq Draco.... *scratches head* An interesting concept, to be sure, up there with the "Horus tries to save the Emperor from the evil Dorn & Co." reinterpretation of the Heresy. However, as the story seems to serve primarily as a vessel for the idea, I think the writing suffers a bit and the entire thing comes off as something which would be dismissed out-of-hand by a lot of people as simple fanfluff retconning-for-reaction, and with the amount of "retconning" some people like to pounce on GW for, this much of a rug-tug would just be too much, and some people will critique the Inquisitor's style (oh, the potential for an excruciator and a subject who won't die...if he can feel the pain, it's even better...). The idea itself seems relatively sound, although I really don't see how it has far-reaching and goofy philosophical meaning other than that the Imperium is consciously lying to itself yet again (there comes a time when, to an observer, this sort of extra obfuscation just becomes irrelevant) and the traitor legions possibly have a "more rational" reason for all that False Emperor gibberish. So...even if the thing on the Golden Throne is Horus...and the thing that was cloned in the EoT and then destroyed was the Emperor (remember the "Horus" clones? Another thorny issue)....does it really matter for concepts like, say, the Star Child or other metaphysical concepts related to the Emperor? I would have to say that the joke is entirely on Horus, in fact, for wanting power so badly that he simply became a living statue of the Emperor.
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Post by Sojourner on Feb 9, 2005 7:35:27 GMT -5
I like the phrase "The body sitting upon the Golden Throne is and always was Horus"
Has about the same ring as "No...I am your father"
Nice piece.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 9, 2005 7:51:55 GMT -5
...An interesting concept, to be sure... So...even if the thing on the Golden Throne is Horus...and the thing that was cloned in the EoT and then destroyed was the Emperor (remember the "Horus" clones? Another thorny issue)....does it really matter Nope, it doesn't matter. I just thought that it was a cool concept!
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Post by Philip on Feb 9, 2005 8:30:47 GMT -5
The idea itself seems relatively sound, although I really don't see how it has far-reaching and goofy philosophical meaning other than that the Imperium is consciously lying to itself yet again (there comes a time when, to an observer, this sort of extra obfuscation just becomes irrelevant) and the traitor legions possibly have a "more rational" reason for all that False Emperor gibberish. If the Chaos Marine actually worship Chaos and Horus was their warmaster, wouldn’t that make Horus in this ‘Horus on the Throne’ idea the True Emperor in their eyes? Wouldn’t they say to other marines cryptic things like ‘ we worship the same Emperor you and I, but my faith is true’ stuff like that etc. etc. I think it’s a fun idea, but it only really pans out as a manipulation by the Chaos Gods, it’s the type of confusing rhetoric daemons would use to undermine those who will listen, and Inquisitors are quite capable of countering such psychological mind games. In the linked story the Inquisitor would imprison the Heretic, and remove the artefact for further examination. Even if the artefact proves to be genuine, there are a million and one ways the Heretic could have obtained it by other means, it just isn’t enough to convince an Inquisitor. Then the torture begins, if this Heretic is immortal I think any enterprising Inquisitor would ship it back to headquarters where the poor retch would become the ‘benchmark’ for students studying and wishing to become Inquisitors. A case of ‘can you pass the False Emperor’ test… As far as I can tell, the only time Inquisitors actually loose it, is when they deal will the more powerful Daemons (princes) and the Gods themselves. Even Inquisitor can’t stand up to that level of power, and many of the Gods schemes are to lure Inquisitor to areas or into situations where direct contact can be made. Inquisitors are good at what they do, but they are not that good.
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Post by CELS on Feb 9, 2005 9:44:44 GMT -5
Well, I hate to disagree with you guys, but... no wait, actually, I love to disagree with you guys! ;D This piece was not well written. In fact, it was very, very badly written. Rule number one of reading amateur 40k fiction; If they spell Emperor 'Emporer', then you know it's going to be a pile of pants. (Thanks to Kage for that excellent expression, by the way) Unfortunately, this rule was only confirmed by this story. This story had two merits; 1) an original idea, and 2) some of the descriptions were nicely written. Unfortunately 1) The idea didn't really make sense and wasn't really that cool, except for cheesy Chaos players who love to think that there is only chaos and corruption, and that Tzeentch invented sliced bread, 2) Except for a few descriptions, the rest of the text was poorly written. The Inquisitor character was not credible in the slightest (this guy had the patience of Ghandi) and the idea of people made literally immortal by chaos gods is always stupid. I hope you forgive my extreme honesty and bias here. I usually try to be more accomodating, but this is the General forum, so... here it is. Hmm... now that I have actually read what you guys said about the story, I guess we don't disagree that much after all. Pity... Still, I do appreciate that you were only posting this for the sake of showing us an original idea, Kage. But.... I just can't help commenting on the thing with Sanguinius' feather. That is so incredibly daft that it makes my eyes water. The guy could have pulled the feather off a goose. If all Inquisitors are that gullible, no wonder there's so much heresy in the Imperium. Inquisitor: Die, foul heretic! Heretic: Wait, wait! See this old sandwich? This was half-eaten by the Emperor in the Horus Heresy. He never got around to finish eating it, of course, since Horus attacked his palace. Inquisitor: Oooooh.... *explodes in an inferno of uncontrolled daftness*
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Post by Sojourner on Feb 9, 2005 9:51:33 GMT -5
I like it. Perfect conspiracy theory.
It also sets the scene nicely for the end of the Imperium and a sequel game involving the various factions post-Imperium. I'm thinking Ultramar, Ophelia, Mars, Macharia and Cadia among others...
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Post by DesertGhostExarch on Feb 9, 2005 12:49:09 GMT -5
If the Chaos Marine actually worship Chaos and Horus was their warmaster, wouldn’t that make Horus in this ‘Horus on the Throne’ idea the True Emperor in their eyes? Well yes, but the story clearly states ( ) that their rationale for calling "Horus" the False Emperor is simply by merit of Horus' "spell" lifting from them (after all, they were under mind control!!! ) after they were hounded to the Eye (and from thence being driven insane by the Long War so that it's one of the few things they remember) and him not being the Emperor because, oops, they were all loyalists being driven slowly insane now. I don't think it really works either, but that seems to be the story.... And I agree, CELS. "Emporer" indeed.... ....although I think it would be interesting to see more phenomena like the revealing of the Hanky of the Emperor from the Inquisition War series. "Ooh, shiny" is an entirely appropriate response...but then I guess that one had already been conditioned for a long time. The whole "feather of Sanguinius" thing is a bit daft.
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Post by Sojourner on Feb 9, 2005 13:59:48 GMT -5
We're overlooking the possibility that this was never the plan and that Horus took power for himself and let the other traitor primarchs be ousted by the loyalists. Hence they despise him more than the Emperor and furthermore know the truth.
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