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Post by Philip on Jan 20, 2005 18:28:52 GMT -5
Even retroviruses can’t get everywhere.
As for ‘target’ that relates to the site, it seems to be a very specific method of cutting DNA, and it can go anywhere a protein can go. So this method is used once, and affects all Somatic Cells (all but sperm/ egg).
As for delivery method: Geneseed!
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Post by RascalLeader on Jan 20, 2005 19:03:57 GMT -5
Thats not a delivery method! it still has to get into the cells. Even if its spewing out sections of Genetic code it still needs to get around to the rest of the body. It can't just float aimlessly, or it really would be a very poor approch. Thats the reason I favor a virus more then anything else; at least if it was powerful enoght it could effect enoght cells in the body to kick start the change. Instead of taking years to finish the process a virus could do this over a very short period. And even if it effects only 80% of that person it would be more then widespread enoght.
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Post by Philip on Jan 20, 2005 19:25:08 GMT -5
Even if its spewing out sections of Genetic code it still needs to get around to the rest of the body. It can't just float aimlessly, or it really would be a very poor approch. No more than a virus floats around aimlessly. Remember Meganuclease are proteins.
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Post by RascalLeader on Jan 20, 2005 19:45:17 GMT -5
Of Course! (bangs head against wall) If a virus Floats "Aimlessly" then I am a Son of a Duck ( ) it does. like every other living organism, do what it does to survive. Thats hardly aimless is it? However you must agree that a virus does spread faster then a protein would. It aggressively inflitrates health cells. So my statement still stands. Its much better for moving the Meganuclease around. Once a virus gets intrenched it could start producing the Meganuclease proteins direct at the 'site', rather then traveling all the way from the Geneseed itself. Infact since in the fluff the genetic change must be 'activated' (i.e. Exsanguination) this would have some grounding.
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Post by Philip on Jan 20, 2005 21:48:10 GMT -5
Of Course! (bangs head against wall) I hope that didn’t hurt too much. ;D If a virus Floats "Aimlessly" then I am a Son of a Duck ( ) it does. like every other living organism, do what it does to survive. Thats hardly aimless is it? That was the point However you must agree that a virus does spread faster then a protein would. It aggressively inflitrates health cells. Hmm, you must have hit your head really hard! A virus is basically a protein bag with RNA inside. Anywhere a virus can go a protein can go, using the same systems to get around. As a bonus the protein isn’t going to set of the subjects immune system, and protein don’t have to crack open cell to get at the DNA like virus’ sledgehammer tactics, and proteins are clean and tidy (viruses aren’t). The Meganuclease also makes use of the cell’s own or rather DNA’s own auto-repair systems to complete the job - smooth as silk. Quite fascinating, and very neat, probably explains why they have a patent. So my statement still stands. Not anymore! Its much better for moving the Meganuclease around. Just as quick without. Once a virus gets intrenched it could start producing the Meganuclease proteins direct at the 'site', When the virus finally gets to the cell the Meganuclease would have already finished the job.
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 21, 2005 4:43:17 GMT -5
Oh really? Where?
I might as well post my Spiel from portent here. A better approach, IMO.
This is only semi-coherent as it was part of another conversation, but I hope this will shed some light on my theory as I can't be bothered to write at length at the moment. I must point out that much of it is the way it is due to Taran's laborious correction of my bad biology - thanks Taran!
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Post by Philip on Jan 21, 2005 5:09:34 GMT -5
Is that the same Taran that posts on BL?
*Nips off and checks*
Yep, same profile on portent. I had a chat with her on the BL forums (link in the first post of this thread).
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Post by Tynesh on Jan 21, 2005 6:30:32 GMT -5
I am in near total agree ment with Sojourner on this one Philip. It is as near to the process that GW has described and not that difficult to relate into comprehensive medical techniques.
Not sure about the Exsanguination, I always assumed this was the cause of the Red Thirst and Black Rage among aspirants?
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 21, 2005 6:43:06 GMT -5
Erm, indirectly. Because Exsanguination uses the living blood of the Sanguinary Priests, the gene-seed grows progressively more contaminated as the ages pass. It's a complex relationship between genetic flaws and the resonating psychic echo of Sanguinius' death that combine to produce the traits we see today.
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Post by Philip on Jan 21, 2005 14:05:08 GMT -5
I’ve checked and the system I have outlined could be tailored to match old fluff. ;D
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Post by RascalLeader on Jan 22, 2005 11:03:42 GMT -5
Codex: Angels of Death - Circa 1996 (2E) Once implanted these organs grow and modify the recipient’s genetic structure. Selected hormones are boosted to aid growth, expand muscle tissue and strengthen bone structure, which other genetically tailored substances are released into the space marine’s bloodstream which makes further changes throughout the body. I know Maybe Yes but if you had a single geneseed producing say a million proteins (I know this argument is redundant now) an hour and the virus cells reproducing even every few minutes (a poor virus to be sure), with the population keep doubling, it will far outstrip the geneseed in production of the relevent protein. The numbers are on its side. Producing such a large number of Meganuclease at one sorce, would initally outshine a virus, but not for long. It also means that trillions of the little blighters have alot more work to do. They would attach to the cells around them first and keep going layer by layer, only occasionally drifting very far. A virus would be more concerned about getting a foot hold wherever it could. It will attack at mutiple points around the body. However once they would start producing Meganuclease at all these different point (which their could be billions of billions of virus cells at this point) and they are like mini factories producing a dozen or so themselves the effect would be so widespread that it would not take long to effect all the cells in the body. Mind you if the Meganuclease were spit out by a relevent organ (which looks to be the case now) then a virus would not be the prefered method . All advantages would be gone.
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Post by Philip on Jan 22, 2005 11:22:44 GMT -5
Codex: Angels of Death - Circa 1996 (2E) Once implanted these organs grow and modify the recipient’s genetic structure. Selected hormones are boosted to aid growth, expand muscle tissue and strengthen bone structure, which other genetically tailored substances are released into the space marine’s bloodstream which makes further changes throughout the body. Now you see that my system is just a more complex overlay. Yes but if you had a single geneseed producing say a million proteins (I know this argument is redundant now) an hour and the virus cells reproducing even every few minutes (a poor virus to be sure), with the population keep doubling, it will far outstrip the geneseed in production of the relevent protein. The numbers are on its side. Producing such a large number of Meganuclease at one sorce, would initally outshine a virus, but not for long. It also means that trillions of the little blighters have alot more work to do. They would attach to the cells around them first and keep going layer by layer, only occasionally drifting very far. A virus would be more concerned about getting a foot hold wherever it could. It will attack at mutiple points around the body. However once they would start producing Meganuclease at all these different point (which their could be billions of billions of virus cells at this point) and they are like mini factories producing a dozen or so themselves the effect would be so widespread that it would not take long to effect all the cells in the body. Mind you if the Meganuclease were spit out by a relevent organ (which looks to be the case now) then a virus would not be the prefered method . All advantages would be gone. Maybe the modified cells then produce a new Meganuclease as a by-product of their transformation… ;D
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 22, 2005 19:33:46 GMT -5
Well, that confirms a genetic alteration but then again that was unfortunately reconfirmed in Angels of Darkness. With that said...
Ah who cares about what I think!
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Post by Tynesh on Jan 24, 2005 4:40:21 GMT -5
This may be where my knowledge can sway the arguement back in my direction!
The above statement does not mean that the recipient's DNA is changed per se. It could all relate to the alteration of expression patterns of proteins encoded by the DNA.
Boosting Hormones - Don't need to be modified, just a new/redesigned transcription factor (a key promotor protein that activates transcription of RNA) could be produced by the geneseed. This could increase or decrease the amount of hormone that is produced by the gene.
Simple application of current biochemical and genetic practices with a little knowledge of Golden Age genetic understanding of gene expression.
With this idea, the genetic code of the aspirant is left unchanged.
Tynesh
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Post by Philip on Jan 24, 2005 7:03:36 GMT -5
Codex: Angels of Death - Circa 1996 (2E) Once implanted these organs grow and modify the recipient’s genetic structure The above statement does not mean that the recipient's DNA is changed per se. I don’t know Tynesh, it really sounds like the author meant changing DNA. I mean, wouldn’t they say ‘modifies the way the genetic structure works’ if they meant that? One of the reasons I spent so long researching my design is because I wanted it to match up, so that the current description is like a ‘layman’s terms’ of my design. I wanted a very elegant design that was innately simple to understand, yet deeply complex to fathom.
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