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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 3, 2004 17:47:58 GMT -5
A really simple question that came up when I was thinking of modifying the "Modelling Psykers in GURPS" thread in RPG. Anyway, I've already got a design for Marine PA (in Factory), but I had to wonder how people saw the analogous aspect armour functioning with the eldar? What different principles does it involve...?
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Post by Destecado on Oct 4, 2004 16:16:31 GMT -5
we can all agree that the armor is lighter than that employed by the Imperium (in most cases) yet it also has a better save. Some of this could be due to the materials used in its construction. Another thought is that the way that Eldar armor is ment to protect the wearer differs from that of imperial armor.
If you look at the armor of some of the aspect warriors, it is curved at odd angles in various areas. some of this can be attributed to ornante designs, but it may also serve a secondary purpose of redirecting the angle of the shot.
Similar to sloped armor that is used on tanks, the idea is to cause the round striking it to deflect off rather than hitting a flat surface and punching through.
I also think that rather than being one solid piece of construction, the armor is made up of many thin layers built up one over the other. The multi layers would mean that the bonds of the piece run in several directions rather than in one. This adds rigidity and also helps resist breaking.
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Post by CELS on Oct 5, 2004 2:54:59 GMT -5
Well, I'm afraid I have nothing else to go by than wargame rules and fluff. To me, it seems that Eldar power armour does not have the super-strength of most human power armour. Eldar power armour is as light as possible, making them more agile than humans in power armour, and probably more agile than Space Marines. Eldar seem to have a considerable amount of power weapons, so they really don't need to punch through walls with their fists. And I wonder what's inside those big helmets...
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 5, 2004 7:52:22 GMT -5
A reasonable response, CELS. I happen to agree with you although I do believe it does augment eldar strength. The question is by how much and the means by which this is represented! Of course, taking the wargame as gospel obviously has its limitations: why is Striking Scorpion aspect armour have a higher 'strength' than Dire Avenger aspect armour? Obviously this is just a mechanic to achieve greater CC effectiveness for Striking Scorpions, but should it be represented in more detailed and flexible mechanics? Also, 'agility' is problematic when you're dealing with suit systems that significantly increased the 'ground speed' of the eldar. Rather, in combat it is the 'initiative' of the individual that is the primary consideration. In this case the eldar will, for the most part, win out on the Marine as a function of species... Also, what are the power systems of eldar aspect armour? This in part relates to eldar power generation in general. On 'large' systems I personally advocate wraithbone/psychic power, but does this translate to smaller systems?
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Post by Sikkukkut on Oct 6, 2004 9:28:02 GMT -5
From page 67 of the second-edition Wargear book, for whatever it might add:
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 8, 2004 8:46:21 GMT -5
Okaaaayyy... not quite as useful as I would have hoped. Guess I'm just going to have to try and generate the armour using 'technomancy' and then post it to be charred...
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Post by Sojourner on Oct 9, 2004 10:10:57 GMT -5
Aspect armour is made up of a combination of Mesh and plating. I would imagine there is also an insulated undersuit containing all the support systems, though to an extent these would also be incorporated into the outer shell. The balance between the two types tends towards more plating for the heavier aspects - Scorpions and Reapers are mostly solid plating while (say) Hawks would carry hardly any.
As for strength, I'd agree that aspect armour wouldn't have the brute strength of Power armour, its motive systems being geared toward preserving and enhancing the innate Eldar agility rather than enabling heavier load-lifting. I'm guessing that it uses a form of fibre bundle in the same way as power armour, but with typical Eldar efficiency being streamlined into the mesh layer in smaller, more applied quantities akin to humanoid musculature rather than the cruder block technique of the Imperium. (which is not to say that Imperial armour is primitive, merely more rugged and more easily adapted, whereas Eldar warcraft is so streamlined that every facet of their hardware can be geared toward performance).
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Post by Strygaldwyr on Oct 9, 2004 16:53:54 GMT -5
Why should it have to be geared towards one or the other?
If eldar aspect armour is psychosensitive and capable of responding to it's wearer and reacting to weapon impact could it not also adapt to increase strength or preserve/augment alacrity as required?
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Post by Sojourner on Oct 10, 2004 5:00:19 GMT -5
You can only install so much musculature. Finer, more rapid bundles would be better for fast movement in the same way as biological muscle tissue, whereas the bulk of Imperial armour implies that weight and agility isn't as big a concern. I have no doubt that each type has an element of both, however. It's just that it's Eldar nature to prioritise speed over strength.
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 10, 2004 5:16:29 GMT -5
At the moment I'm working on the principle that Aspect Armour is approximately 2/3 the strength capable of being generated - I still fundamentally disagree with the lever approach to PA - by power armour. That sound about right...?
The actual means by which this is generated is up for grabs. The point about the eldar is they mix technology (fusion, power cells, whatever) with 'psychic' technology (whatever; magic for me)... This is exactly why I find them fascinating. While they might not see a difference, in representation there is going to be an ultimate decision determined by the designer... So when is something 'hard' technology and when is it 'magic'?
Does anyone have any particular suggestions with specific reference to eldar aspect armour? Let us, for the moment at least, stick with Dire Avengers since they are meant to be the most generic...
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Post by Sojourner on Oct 10, 2004 6:10:39 GMT -5
Dire Avengers are a pain, actually. Model-wise they're portrayed as wearing the same armour suits as Guardians because they're based off the same plastic kit.
How inconvenient. I don't see every Guardian wearing 'power' armour, that is, the same armour as the Aspects, not least because they're documented as wearing primarily Mesh.
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Post by CELS on Oct 10, 2004 7:24:45 GMT -5
Which reminds me of the paranoid saying: Nothing is as it appears to be. Superficially, Guardian flak/mesh armour might look like Eldar aspect armour, but it could actually function quite differently.
And then there's the fact that one really can't trust the models 100%. Space Marines are probably equipped with more than a single clip for their bolter, for example.
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 10, 2004 18:36:51 GMT -5
And the whole problem that mires[/i] Marine PA if one actually engages the 'ole brain in terms of moving beyond policy.
The question becomes how does it become reasonably represented given the 'fluff' if one is aware of the limitations of that 'fluff'?
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Post by Larandil on Nov 18, 2004 10:19:50 GMT -5
Also, what are the power systems of eldar aspect armour? This in part relates to eldar power generation in general. On 'large' systems I personally advocate wraithbone/psychic power, but does this translate to smaller systems? Just a suggestion: should an Aspect Warrior be packing an active power plant that can keep his armour going on for a long time, or would he rather settle for a couple of high-powered dense energy packs/crystal batteries to last throughout the battle and to be replaced/recharged afterwards at the Aspect shrine?
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Post by Dazo on Nov 19, 2004 11:34:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure aspect armour would need a dedicated power source as you suggest, its psychoreactive is it not, so I assume it would draw its power from the wearer somewhat, the battery idea has merit I think, possibly used to power the resperators, targeters and weapons. I think the eldar would probably be able to make batteries that don't need recharging in the same way we would charge a battery.
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