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Post by Philip on Sept 14, 2004 10:57:04 GMT -5
Hi Kage, this is a reworking of my other threads (STC:CS/ Invictonburg), I understand they are a few areas that you would like to change. I am willing to start from scrap and look at it again and the concepts behind it. Hopefully this will eventually be part of a revised ‘Invictonburg’. I know you are very busy, so I will limit my posting in it  =Mission to Mars=As part of the development of the STC concept, I want to look at humanity’s earliest colonisation attempt: the mission to Mars! This will form the roots of the colonisation process that the STC was designed to cater for. =Premise=I want to approach this slightly differently that the other thread, and look at it from our point of view, and design the systems using today’s technology (an possible future tech). I think this will give a better understanding of how to develop the colonisation process and therefore the designs that would form part of the STC. =Set-up=Mars has low gravity, and non breathable atmosphere. It is devoid of life, and may have limited resources in the form of carbon dioxide, frozen water. =Related threads (to be added later)=- STC [Part 1: Origins]
- STC [Part 2: Mission to Mars] this thread
- STC [Part 3: Conquering the Stars] coming later
=Current Summary of Thread=As this thread increases, I'll post a summary below.- Initial habitats on Mars would be made off world (on Earth) and shipped to Mars whole and dropped into place.
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Post by Philip on Sept 14, 2004 10:57:25 GMT -5
=Starting ideas=
Looking at the International space station, the mission to Mars may be a collaborative effort between several counties. The USA, Europe and Japan are likely candidates, but as this is in the future, other countries may have changed considerably; China is expected to be an economic super power by 2050 so it may play a part.
Regardless of the players, one thing about the International Space Station is that the component modules where all build in their respectively assigned countries to a common set of design goals/ standards and had to be accepted by all (as all modules had to interlock with each other in space and share common systems).
Reading about colonising mars (NASA etc.), another aspect to consider is that the first habitats would be self contained (due to the inhospitable conditions) and left on the surface when the astronauts left. Successive missions would bring new habitats and add to the size of the ‘colony’.
=A penny …=
I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on this, please remember that this is about a mission to mars and how it would link to the STC, it is not discussing the STC as it is in 40K.
So what do you think would be needed? How would it be done?
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 15, 2004 7:35:59 GMT -5
I would suggest that you go to your local book store, or even your local library, and check out a number of books. For a hard sci-fi interpretation, but one that is grounded in quite a lot of sci-fact, is the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson (Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars; don't confuse it with ?Ben Bova's Mars book, which isn't as good or cover the same topics). It's also a rather wonderful read and interpretation of colonial/captive government politics.
I cannot remember the author's name, so it's probably not that much use, but there is also another book out there called (unsurprisingly) Mars which discusses the possibility of using 'modern' technologies and rocket/lander systems to set up a rapid Martian colonisation process...
Perhaps overtly guestimating where you're going to go with this thread - it being kind of obvious given the title - I would suggest that while there might indeed be standardised technologies utilised, there is an extreme difference between that and standardised construction 'blocks' (as it were).
One would readily imagine that similar pattern tractors/drovers, etc., would be shipped out to Mars... but that individual responses would alter these devices based upon a pragmatic (=realistic) response to environmental situations. Also, while prefab housing might be the initial way to go, these would rapidly be replaced by individualised construction...
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Post by Philip on Sept 15, 2004 8:42:04 GMT -5
I would suggest that you go to your local book store, or even your local library, and check out a number of books. For a hard sci-fi interpretation, but one that is grounded in quite a lot of sci-fact, is the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson ( Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars; don't confuse it with ?Ben Bova's Mars book, which isn't as good or cover the same topics). It's also a rather wonderful read and interpretation of colonial/captive government politics. I cannot remember the author's name, so it's probably not that much use, but there is also another book out there called (unsurprisingly) Mars which discusses the possibility of using 'modern' technologies and rocket/lander systems to set up a rapid Martian colonisation process... Thanks. Perhaps overtly guestimating where you're going to go with this thread - it being kind of obvious given the title - I would suggest that while there might indeed be standardised technologies utilised, there is an extreme difference between that and standardised construction 'blocks' (as it were). At the moment I looking at the concepts at the heart of the STC. One would readily imagine that similar pattern tractors/drovers, etc., would be shipped out to Mars... but that individual responses would alter these devices based upon a pragmatic (=realistic) response to environmental situations. Yes, as humans gained experience, designs would have been added to the STC (or rather the embryo STC). The STC could have been an 'open source' work among the academic community, added to by scientists and designers from many worlds. Corporations would release the 'official' vetted versions with support systems to be used as a starting point for a world interested in colonising a new world. Also, while prefab housing might be the initial way to go, these would rapidly be replaced by individualised construction... Yep, prefab habitats would be the first part of a colony. The individualised construction would indeed come and be based on designs from the 'originating' world. These designs would be added to the collective pool of information that will become the STC. This would allow these designs to be used by other worlds when colonising, if they find similar conditions then they have a whole set of blueprints for proven designs ready to go with little adaptation. As all modern building construction is heading to the 'prefabrication of parts', once the colony is set up and ready to build, their initial building would be based on assembling shipped in prefabbed parts into the finished structures (as the colony doesn't have any manufacturing or heavy industry until their workshops are built!). Once a colony has it workshops, they can prefab their own parts and ship them to their current construction site. =Mars=Initial habitats on Mars would be made off world (on Earth) and shipped to Mars whole and dropped into place. This would provide an instant colony base and a foot hold in the world. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 15, 2004 8:55:50 GMT -5
It's a different universe but has some concepts which may prove useful in increasing the verisimilitude of... whatever it is that you're trying to do. At the moment I looking at the concepts at the heart of the STC. That remains to be seen or, at least, whether what you feel is the 'heart' is the same as others, including myself.  Yes, as humans gained experience, designs would have been added to the STC (or rather the embryo STC). Why bother? It presumes that there is communication in transmission of this data to other STC. Local alterations remain local alterations unless you invent this communication. Corporations would release the 'official' vetted versions with support systems to be used as a starting point for a world interested in colonising a new world. Whether you have a benign or capitalist predication, the chances are that you're dealing with a limited database in the first place... technologies that would be useful for colonisation, not the be-all-and-end-all that it is common (mis)ascribed. Yep, prefab habitats would be the first part of a colony. And then rapidly mothballed or organically integrated into surrounding structures, generally becoming unrecognisable. Just becaus the first lander is in the shape of a rocket doesn't mean that the rest of the landers are in the shape of the rockets doesn't mean that all subsequent construction is doing to take the shape of a rocket. The individualised construction would indeed come and be based on designs from the 'originating' world. They would have an influence, yes, as would environmental parameters. ...once the colony is set up and ready to build, their initial building would be based on assembling shipped in prefabbed parts into the finished structures... Initial. Not total. |
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Post by Philip on Sept 15, 2004 13:49:14 GMT -5
And then rapidly mothballed or organically integrated into surrounding structures, generally becoming unrecognisable. Looking at Mars it would be quite a while before the first landing modules could be mothballed. I think the initial habitats would stay on use, and used as a base to house workers as they built more structures. With so much land available, they wouldn’t have to get rid initial structures. It would be a very long time before a Mars Base could actually start manufacturing complex equipment. A whole mini town would have to be built first. Building this town would require prefabed parts shipped from Earth for quite a while to get it established, and the society would be dependent on Earth. Also it raises the issue of self-sufficiency, how are all these people going to be fed on Mars? If the food had to be shipped from Earth, it would seriously limit the size of the Mars base and how it would grow. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 16, 2004 18:55:21 GMT -5
Looking at Mars it would be quite a while before the first landing modules could be mothballed. I would suggest that the size of initial colonisation should be remembered, i.e. it would be likely small. The purpose of the initial inhabitants would be: (1) to prove the facility and the techniques; and (2) to construct additional facilities for future immigrants. Inhabiting structures which would be subject to the many vagaries of the Martian environment would be foolhardy... Indeed, I cannot help but remember a (paraphrased) comment from Armageddon: "Just remember that you're sitting in a machine built of 10,000 parts all built by the lowest contractor." |
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Post by Philip on Sept 21, 2004 8:39:34 GMT -5
I would suggest that the size of initial colonisation should be remembered, i.e. it would be likely small. The purpose of the initial inhabitants would be: (1) to prove the facility and the techniques; and (2) to construct additional facilities for future immigrants. That’s what I’m thinking, porta-cabin drop pods (forerunners of Omega STC:CS). Inhabiting structures which would be subject to the many vagaries of the Martian environment would be foolhardy... Humans are foolhardy Indeed, I cannot help but remember a (paraphrased) comment from Armageddon: "Just remember that you're sitting in a machine built of 10,000 parts all built by the lowest contractor." That’s why the foolhardy go  |
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Post by Philip on Oct 3, 2004 7:40:08 GMT -5
=Overview of Mars Mission= This is a quick overview of the steps in the Mars mission, unsure when this will come about in 40K timeline. I'm guessing that in our timeline (if it was done like this) that it would be around 2150-2200? - After much study, design testing with countless mini missions to Mars to test out prototypes, the 'Eden project' is OKed by Earth's combined Space Agencies (who are all cooperating with each other).
- A massive space station port is built in orbit around Earth and named Terra 1 (space ports are named after the planet and then the number of the port. Earth is named Terra [0]).
- Eden 1 (the first Mars 'seed ship') is assembled in Terra 1 form billions of prefabs parts brought up from Earth. Terra 1 will handle all of Eden/ Mars traffic.
- Eden 1 leaves for Mars. The Eden 1 is basically a massive drop pod carrier, with all the drop pods 'clamped on' to the Eden's 1 'backbone' (for some reason the Eagles from space 1999 come to mind.). All the drop pods are interlinked and form the living space of the Eden 1. The crew/ colonists actually live in the drop pods! There are many different types of drop pod including the 'hydroponic/ recycling' drop pods used to reprocess the air and human waste through out the long mission. All these drop pods are hooked up to the main ship.
- On arrival several years later the Eden 1 takes up orbit around Mars.
- Once in position the Eden 1 disengages all hard links to the drop pods, which are then dropped in sequence. The drop pods are smallish (large van or truck) and use simple parachutes to land. In flight the drop pods traction system springs out from their folded state (wheels mounted on long legs with hefty suspension systems). The frame of the ship (what's left after of the pods are dropped) remains in orbit as a space station (later Eden ship frames can be combine to form a space dock).
- If a drop pod lands OK (includes the ability to right itself), it engages its engine and drives off (humans or auto pilot?) to meet up with the other drop pods are a predetermined rendezvous point.
- Once all together, the drop pod are all hooked up to each other to form the first Mars Base. The base is a mixture of 'habitats drop pods' and 'hydroponic/ recycling drop pods' at a ratio of 1:4, with additional command unit and labs. The main power units of the Base in are small fusion reactor units (assuming humans can make it work by 2150!)
- The area under the drop pods is tented out with the left over parachutes hung on the 'legs' to form a shaded area (clear parachutes for a green house effect) ready for the first terraforming tests on soil reconditioning (using super tough bacteria).
- Now additional unmanned supply pods can now be sent, and picked up by the colonist and taken back to base using 'moon buggies'. The Supply pods contain extra food/ tools/ machines/ flat-packed building materials (with STC like plans )/ even hole extra hydroponic units. All supply pods come with detailed instructions on how to use them, hook them up or assemble them. Using the supply pods, the Mars Base is built up bit by bit into a permanent base that will serve as a starting point for the rest of the colonisation process.
- All ships that have colonists on board are name Eden 1, Eden 2 etc. Unmanned supply pods are numbered after the last ship to leave for Mars. So Eden 5-102 would be the 1022 supply pod after the Eden 5 was launched.
- It is a tremendous undertaking to colonise Mars and to make it self sufficient, The last official ship of the Eden project was the Eden 6825. After this Mars was declared a 'colonised world' and all ships thereafter were named with the prefix 'Mars'. By the end of the Eden project Mars had the capability to mine and manufacture its own goods, its own research stations, economy and government.
Does this sound reasonable? |
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