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Post by CELS on Sept 10, 2004 16:09:38 GMT -5
Well, the third issue of Oracle on Portent is "coming soon" and at the moment, we're not in it. I think we should be. I've discussed this briefly with Kage and we've decided that the two best options we have are 1) A presentation of Anargo, the capital of the Anargo sector, using Kage's SR and some extra wargamey stuff. 2) The Frost Bringers Index Astartes, by Sikkukkut, probably also with some new additions. Now, I was originally going to make a poll, but I've decided to start a discussion about this instead, and weigh up arguments for either option. So please, reply to this post and speak your mind about which would be cooler to see in the next Oracle issue. That said, we're still far from having a finished product. Anargo needs to be spiced up to make it more interesting, by writing about its military forces for one thing. Perhaps writing about the Anargo Imperial Guard Regiments, and maybe posting some appropriate pictures. Whatever option we choose, we're going to need artwork, and I will ask each of our active artists to paint/draw a specific drawing according to his talent. For those of you who will be asked, keep in mind that the Portent Oracle is read by thousands, if not tens of thousands, of people. In all likelyhood, this includes a lot of important GW employees, such as Andy Hoare, Gav Thorpe, etc.  Your thoughts? What do you think would make a better article? |
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Post by Dazo on Sept 11, 2004 3:00:38 GMT -5
I prefere option one CELS, it just seems we have more of that side of things in terms of write ups and art work to show people, Nathans planet art I think will blow people away.
The frost bringers don't seem to have much to them at the moment, besides which weren't we going to enter them in that GW competition.
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 11, 2004 5:19:57 GMT -5
1) A presentation of Anargo, the capital of the Anargo sector, using Kage's SR and some extra wargamey stuff... That said, we're still far from having a finished product. Anargo needs to be spiced up to make it more interesting, by writing about its military forces for one thing... Seems to make a reasonable amount of sense, though you'll have to forgive the lack of discussion about an "Imperial Guard regiment" on Anargo. It's something that everyone else is writing about and something that I find to be a tad on the yawn-worthy side. Plus, all of the regiments that are on Anargo do not derive from Anargo itself... (Furthermore, one has to remember that the Anargan military is more an extended paramilitary organisation revolving around the 'Arbites', with the exception of the 'elite guard' of Lord Anargo...) If this is used, then there also needs to be some integration of the 'history' - brief at the moment - with the extended history of the sector. This was something that was going to come with time... And one other thing. If you're going to cater towards the wargame side of things, then it should also be made clear that we're catering to the RPG side of things. Some plot hooks for a RPG campaign, even a small description of an 'adventure' or whatnot... |
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Post by CELS on Sept 11, 2004 6:54:01 GMT -5
I prefere option one CELS, it just seems we have more of that side of things in terms of write ups and art work to show people, Nathans planet art I think will blow people away. Yes, indeed. Of course, we have to ask ourselves if this will really be interesting for the common reader, and whether or not Oracle will really want this article. I'm not sure if one planet is interesting to read about, without seeing how all this information is used. The suggested remedy is that we have examples of how to use the Anargo SR to help wargaming, RPing and fiction writing, by for example having some information on the Anargo Imperial Guard, and their combat doctrines, and having some RPG and/or Inquisitor stuff, and even writing a short story that takes place on Anargo. There's no reason why we can't do both. Most submissions will already be seen on the web, I think. Or is this against GWs policy of not using anything that has been published on the web? Seems to make a reasonable amount of sense, though you'll have to forgive the lack of discussion about an "Imperial Guard regiment" on Anargo. It's something that everyone else is writing about and something that I find to be a tad on the yawn-worthy side. As long as you forgive the lack of discussion related to RPG in relation with other SRs, that's entirely ok  If you mean the local Arbites, which only recruit from other worlds, then yes. If you mean something else, please explain. This is important to remember when modelling their PDF, not their Imperial Guard regiments. Well, not to the same degree. Obviously, it will mean that all their IG regiments will have similar training to Arbites, but they'll also have to be trained as 'real' soldiers and have the structure of Imperial Guard regiments. Please explain this as well, and keep in mind that our article shouldn't be too long. It seems logical to me that our members of the forum that are artists make artwork, the members that enjoy writing fiction do that, the members who enjoy the wargaming side of things work on that, and the members who enjoy RPGing work on the RPG side of things. Frankly, a wargamer like me wouldn't know where to begin. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 11, 2004 11:19:08 GMT -5
I'm not sure if one planet is interesting to read about, without seeing how all this information is used. Which is why I was talking about a broader sweep, and not just the reference to a single world... by for example having some information on the Anargo Imperial Guard... An Anargan Imperial Guard regiments will be located off Anargo, despite the amount of time people spend trying to develop a 'cool' Guard army for their world. Describing some Anargan units in both 'fluff' and wargame terms is reasonable, though. I don't have the rules to engage in this type of activity myself, nor indeed the time, but it's up there if someone wants to work the basis of the Anargo PDF into a Guard unit... As long as you forgive the lack of discussion related to RPG in relation with other SRs, that's entirely ok It is one of the failings of the project, at present. While the detail presented with the SRs is beyond that which is needed for the wargames, having the information there and not using it might be considered redundant. Then again, if we were doing this purely from a wargame perspective it is automatically redundant. But this is an old soap box. If you mean the local Arbites, which only recruit from other worlds, then yes. If you mean something else, please explain. I think you're confusing terminology here. The local paramilitary/PDF of Anargo are the Arbites that while based on the structure and operating principles of the adeptus arbites but they are not the adeptus arbites. I know that people sometimes have a 'thing' whereby you cannot use the same name to refer to different things but, well, I like the lattitude given by such concepts... As to the locality of the adeptus arbites, or indeed other Imperial organisations, one might imagine that one might consider the concept of isolation and distinctiveness of the Imperial presence on a world... but this is a parallel issue. If warp travel is as dangerous as some would have us believe, the premise of non-locality for the adeptus terra is, of course, a ridiculous idea. Please explain this as well, and keep in mind that our article shouldn't be too long. Merely that if you're trying to 'sell' the ASP you are not going to achieve it through the representation of one world in isolation. This was one of the purposes for the 'history' threads in Meta as a means of describing important dates, but also for getting the concept of continued historical narrative. ...the members who enjoy the wargaming side of things work on that, and the members who enjoy RPGing work on the RPG side of things. The amount of wargaming material that I've had to plow through, as well as just generic concepts, in application to the project would suggest that perhaps people should be willing to look outside of the box of their interest? Of course, it would be easy to suggest that the RP interest is limited, in which case the ASP is already redundant... Frankly, a wargamer like me wouldn't know where to begin. That is a horrendous thing to say when you consider what you were attempting with the "Anargo Chronicles" which, in many regards, is RP in the cooperative fiction sense. |
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Post by CELS on Sept 11, 2004 13:17:37 GMT -5
Which is why I was talking about a broader sweep, and not just the reference to a single world... Well, the thing is that we have the SR for Anargo ready, no extra work required. I assume that one of the PPLs are writing this article (though others may contribute, of course), and none of them seem to have too much time at their hands at the moment. This goes without saying, and it doesn't really change a thing. To develop a 'cool Guard army' you have to take a look at their origins and history. An Anargo IG regiment is going to be pretty standard, despite the unusual organisation of the Anargo PDF. They will have normal IG structure, and all that is going to be 'unique' is their equipment and combat doctrine, I think. Quite I know. I just thought that the Anargo Arbites recruited from offworld, like the Adeptus Arbites. I guess they don't then. Another old soapbox, as you call it Unfortunately, we don't have any coherent history articles for the Anargo Sector, so this means a lot of work and a lot of time that no one has. Which is why I suggest that we base the article on the Anargo SR and just add some extras to it, unless one of the PPLs volunteers to write the article. And before you ask, I'm assuming that this article should be written by the PPLs because they generally have a far better grasp of the project than the other members. The question is, who can do it best? I've already found it plenty useful as a background for my poorly written stories ;D  First of all, I was thinking that I'd probably be the one doing the wargaming side of this article. As you know, I don't have too much time, so I was hoping that this article could be a collaborative effort, with everyone doing their part. Second of all, the Anargo Chronicles are similar to RPing in many regards, but wildly different in many regards. Quite simply I don't know what you're asking for, and instead of you spending a hell of a lot time explaining it to me, I think it would be a lot easier if you or any of the other RPG'ers (Philip, Skabbhatt or whomever) wrote it. Ugh.. gotta go. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 11, 2004 17:40:21 GMT -5
Well, the thing is that we have the SR for Anargo ready... Well, other than the map. I assume that one of the PPLs are writing this article (though others may contribute, of course)... So, in that regard, trying to get something together for Oracle 3 is fairly non-sensical? Beyond the PPLs there is no-one that I would want writing for the ASP in 'public' as it were. Not necessarily because of a lack of ability, but because that is, well, their "job"... and none of them seem to have too much time at their hands at the moment. LOL. In October, November and then onwards I'm going to have nothing but time but for the odd glitch. Just no 'Net access at first! This goes without saying, and it doesn't really change a thing. To develop a 'cool Guard army' you have to take a look at their origins and history. <grin> Now there's wargaming logic for you... True to an extent, but missing a part of the point! But that's me being tongue-in-cheek, so you'll have to forgive me that one. An Anargo IG regiment is going to be pretty standard, despite the unusual organisation of the Anargo PDF. They will have normal IG structure, and all that is going to be 'unique' is their equipment and combat doctrine, I think. Slightly contradictory given the 'history and origins' statement, but then again my knowledge of 'combat doctrines' is quite limited and restricted to readings of the codices... Quite Which kind of says it all... I know. I just thought that the Anargo Arbites recruited from offworld, like the Adeptus Arbites. I guess they don't then. Erm, no. Same organisation, same concepts, but local. That was kind of the point... Another old soapbox, as you call it Yep, we all have them. Unfortunately, we don't have any coherent history articles for the Anargo Sector, so this means a lot of work and a lot of time that no one has. Nope, mainly because we have too few completed worlds. The question is, who can do it best? Or who has the time. None at the moment, as you yourself said. ...so I was hoping that this article could be a collaborative effort, with everyone doing their part. It could be, but some pretty sharpish discussion is going to have to go on the structure. Representing it in the fairly dry terms of the SR isn't going to work... all Portent'ers seem to want to know about is how to "blow s**t up"... Second of all, the Anargo Chronicles are similar to RPing in many regards, but wildly different in many regards. Now there's a non-sensical phrase. The AC was RP, just one that was a tad more subject and not guided by a system. I think it would be a lot easier if you or any of the other RPG'ers (Philip, Skabbhatt or whomever) wrote it. Skabbhatt hasn't been around and, from his previous postings, I'm not sure that Phillip has a positive viewpoint of RPG. I might be wrong in that regard, but he seemed to have a fairly limited regard for every abstraction that they make... |
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Post by CELS on Sept 12, 2004 5:23:35 GMT -5
;D So, in that regard, trying to get something together for Oracle 3 is fairly non-sensical? Beyond the PPLs there is no-one that I would want writing for the ASP in 'public' as it were. Not necessarily because of a lack of ability, but because that is, well, their "job"... No, it makes sense unless we get too ambitious. An article that has a broad enough sweep to demonstrate everything that we do in the ASP, including a look at Anargo, the entire sector, sector history, trade and politics, AND has something for the wargamers... well... I don't think that's much of an option. Keep it to the one planet for now, if you ask me. Since what we're really doing is showing what can be done with all the 'redundant' stuff that we write, it's best to start with a small and easy example. Perhaps you can write us letters? ;D If wargaming logic = faulty logics, I challenge you to demonstrate this With all this ambiguity and tongue-in-cheekness, no wonder I'm missing the point ;D In no way contradictory. There are some things that their history and origins have an impact upon, and there are some things that they adopt from the Imperial Guard without question, such as the rock-hard structure of squads, companies and regiments. Ah, forgive me then. To be fair, I've only read your entire SR once or twice, and it was pretty long Well, we do have time, but I don't think we have time to do what you ask for. Well, perhaps I had time if I knew exactly what you wanted, but I don't, so we'd end up with lots of discussion and all that. Which reminds me, I have to ask heretic if he's at all interested and if he has a deadline. Agreed. My suggestion. Introduction.Brief re-introduction of the ASP, since people might have forgotten about it, or not read the first two issues. We tell them that we're going to give a sample of what we've been doing, and show a few of the many ways this background information can be used. SRIf possible, we include the SR for Anargo Primus III, disregarding the rest of the system since we have limited space and since it's obviously not critical information for this article. WargamingWe write something about Anargo Regiments, and hopefully show both artwork and painted miniatures. We take a single regiment, and focus on their recent history, most important accomplishments. We show the standard equipment and combat doctrines of Anargan regiments. Fiction writingHopefully, someone more talented than I will volunteer to write a very short story (500-1000 words) that takes place on Anargo. It can be about anything from gangsters and Arbites to the adventures of an administratum clerk, as long as it shows how to use the information from the SR. We also write a paragraph about the ASP supplying a near endless amount of background information that makes it easier to write fiction (you don't have to create a setting from scratch). RPGSince I'm writing this (apparently), I guess I'll include something for both Inquisitor, collaborative fiction such as the Anargo Chronicles and more 'standard' RPG systems, such as Traveller. So, I guess what I'd be offering here would be plots that can be used for these three RPG-related activities. Maybe a map of a location on Anargo, which is very important for RPG. Yep. I guess that leaves me then. |
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Post by Dazo on Sept 12, 2004 18:19:08 GMT -5
Might it not also behove us to mention the other capitol worlds, if only briefly, to add depth and a little perspective to Anargo itself.
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Post by Kage2020 on Sept 13, 2004 4:20:20 GMT -5
...AND has something for the wargamers... well... I don't think that's much of an option. The only problem is that I think that the representation of a single planet, more so especially the 'capital planet' is going to be of limited interest to wargamers. The primary 'plot hooks' behind such a world are going to be political with the tension of Meksum, extra-sector interactions, etc. Wargamers just want Guard regiments, tanks, guns 'n' stuff... Why not just utilise a 'war torn' world in Castellan? One that is not a staging area ala Massil, but more towards the front? This in itself could bring in the more interesting features of the ASP and the other worlds, e.g. the 'staging world' of Academy and resultant 'officer training schools' for other worlds, the tension created as a result of funnelling all this material to the 'front'... Massil as a secondary staging area to the various worlds of Castellan... the changes to mercantile (Merchant) shipping and the resultant exploitation with regards to other (Civil) ships... maybe even the use of mercenaries, etc. Just seems that getting the SR for a world in Castellan complete and using that as a representation would work just as well as the less 'wargamer-orientated' Castellan. Reference can then be made to the other worlds of the sector if one assumes that Guard regiments are being raised there and funneled directly to Castellan... Perhaps you can write us letters? ;D <grin> Nope... far too much effort. If wargaming logic = faulty logics, I challenge you to demonstrate this Look at the 40k game and you see that 'wargame' does not necessarily equal logical nor consistent. We all know that... I was just amused that at one hand you said that to create a Guard army you needed to look at the history and origins of the unit, a feature which would determine 'combat doctrines', and then subsequently started to mention standard organisation, etc... Well, we do have time, but I don't think we have time to do what you ask for. I'm not particularly asking for anything. Indeed, I am unsure whether rushing to get something to the third edition of Oracle is worth the effort even though I talked to heretic about serialising the ASP and he seemed 'keen' at that time. But then again that was something that I tried discussing months back, now, and coming back to it now when multiple deadlines are looming... well... If possible, we include the SR for Anargo Primus III, disregarding the rest of the system since we have limited space and since it's obviously not critical information for this article. Remember that this is a web-page that you're writing for. Space and copy/paste is not really an option. It's amazing what kind of information you can get from a skeleton... I may let you read my thesis at some stage and you'll find out the truth of this! We write something about Anargo Regiments, and hopefully show both artwork and painted miniatures. We take a single regiment, and focus on their recent history, most important accomplishments. We show the standard equipment and combat doctrines of Anargan regiments. Which is actually more effort than writing oodles of 'colour text' up... Hopefully, someone more talented than I will volunteer to write a very short story (500-1000 words) that takes place on Anargo... A good idea, though it might be worthwhile incuding some of the upper echelons and politics of the place... But that gets more into interpretation and knowledge of the 'imagery' of the world. And that's my backdoor at the moment. Since I'm writing this (apparently), I guess I'll include something for both Inquisitor... <grin> The only people that think that Inquisitor is an RPG are the people that actually play the game! , collaborative fiction such as the Anargo Chronicles and more 'standard' RPG systems, such as Traveller. The only thing that really needs to be done are 'plot hooks': what interesting things can be happening on the world? Industrial sabotage of Meksum... political bickering about the fate of Sargassos... the ork-infested Castellan... 'rogue traders' taking up the challenge of finding a navigable route through the Heart... rumours of a world full of high-tech and STC near the Heart ( Tir'asur)... Even with the 'limited' information that we have at the moment, we still have a heck of a lot. Maybe a map of a location on Anargo, which is very important for RPG. It's less important in this regard since you're more than likely going to have to swipe it from another game system, and therefore have limited application at this stage... And daz0 does have a point with regards to the other worlds... Perhaps that comes in the plot hook section. Or, indeed, something that I was going to try and get people to do was a "Relations with..." section, so that we could begin to plug in social interaction along with the trade system, if zholud ever gets the time to go to that (another reason for utilising the GT:FT system, even though not entirely consistent with the 40k universe; at least it is there!)... |
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Post by CELS on Sept 13, 2004 11:05:25 GMT -5
Why not just utilise a 'war torn' world in Castellan? Because time is precious, and I personally have a lot of things I want to do before building yet another Imperial world. Others are free to pick up this gauntlet though, of course. Yep. And like I said, this is in no way contradictory, but there you go.... There's no way we're finishing this by the third issue of Oracle, because that will be out in days. Not for me In other words, that is not an option, since you're quite apparently too busy to write stories. Right? It's RPG related, and can very, very easily be used to compliment RPGs. |
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