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Post by Destecado on Apr 9, 2004 16:10:04 GMT -5
Kage2020 made reference to the possibility of the existance of a Age of Strife era Micro Emire existing in what would eventually become the Cursed Sub-Sector. Beyond their possible future fate, little has been said. To better understand the cursed sub-sector, I think we need to delve further into its pre-Imperial past.
Defining or at least exploring the culture that existed here before contact with the Imperium might help shed light on what might have led to their eventual downfall.
I have some ideas for the society, but I also want to here from all of you as well. Post your ideas as to what the culture that dominated this sub-sector was like.
I'll post my ideas soon, once I have a chance to set-up the other discussion threads.
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Post by Skabbhatt on Apr 9, 2004 16:32:45 GMT -5
I'm quite keen on having an Empire that actually went well during the Age of Strife, not totally well but in the end well. A shielded society, maybe a Empire carved out by anti-technology groups during the Dark Age of Technology?
But I'm also keen of the Robot idea, so, shielded from the downfall of the rest of the galaxy, maybe they forgot/change their view and re-enacted the fall? Or maybe they were successful in controlling the Iron Men. They simply continued the not-so-Dark Age of Technology? And the manpower of the upstart Imperial Armies put an end to the heresy.
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Post by CELS on Apr 9, 2004 16:49:23 GMT -5
Indeed it would be interesting to have a thriving empire, both if it was successful in controlling the Iron Men or if it avoided the whole catastrophe alltogether by being anti-tech. This would in turn lead to a fantastic war when the Imperium arrived and found this empire with unholy machines that must be purged. Perhaps the citizens were actually loyal to their creations, loving the machines that had true artificial intelligence, and died with their machines? Or, if they were anti-tech, perhaps they were just peaceful people. Kind of like the amish  This would mean that they survived the Great Crusade though, probably. I'm not really sure, but I do know that I don't want any large pre-Imperial empires in the CSS in M41. If there should indeed be any such undiscovered empires in the Anargo sector, I would argue that these should be outside the given subsectors. |
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Post by Destecado on Apr 9, 2004 17:10:02 GMT -5
I don't see them surviving beyond the great Crusade. I also don't view them as the peaceful co-existing type. One reason that people might be afraid of the cursed sub-sector is because of the society that lived there. Including robots and other technological wonders is great.
I'm thinking that the Sargasso rift may have kept most warp storms at bay or at least from the sub-sector's general vacinity. This allowed the society to maintain a multi world technological culture while their neighbors slowly slipped into anarchy or lost access to advance technology.
Perhaps when the warp storms abated, they were able to visit these other worlds and found themselves far superior to them. Instead of helping their neighbors they enslaved them as cheap labor. This would help to reinforce the image of the Alpha Legion as liberators.
Maybe instead of being the evil enslavers, they instead are going to these worlds in an attempt to help. Think about America in Iraq. Good intentions can get muddled up in the daily grind of dealing with insurgents and suicide bombs. I'm not sure what the reactions of a backward society seeing the men of flesh and metal might be.
Perhaps they had actually helped a couple of worlds advance their technology only to have them use the technolgy to blow themselves up. They would be less reluctant to share any technology with outsiders. I'm sure the Adeptus Mechanicus would not be too happy about that or with their society.
Of course this would mean that the society would be destroyed during the Great Crusade rather than later on. If you wish, we could go with a slightly more benevolent society that gets destroyed during the Age of Apostasy. What do you think?
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Post by CELS on Apr 9, 2004 17:35:17 GMT -5
I'm thinking that the Sargasso rift may have kept most warp storms at bay or at least from the sub-sector's general vacinity. This allowed the society to maintain a multi world technological culture while their neighbors slowly slipped into anarchy or lost access to advance technology. This would be interesting, yes, but we should steer away from the idea than all planets that are isolated slip into anarchy and barbarism after a few years. Perhaps when the warp storms abated, they were able to visit these other worlds and found themselves far superior to them. Instead of helping their neighbors they enslaved them as cheap labor. This would help to reinforce the image of the Alpha Legion as liberators. This would be especially cool! Something for the snake-tongued Alpha Legionnaires to play on when they try to give cultists the impression that they're really the good guys, while the Emperor betrayed them. Maybe instead of being the evil enslavers, they instead are going to these worlds in an attempt to help. Think about America in Iraq. Good intentions can get muddled up in the daily grind of dealing with insurgents and suicide bombs. I'm not sure what the reactions of a backward society seeing the men of flesh and metal might be. That's true, and perhaps they had the best intentions, yet were misperceived as evil enslavers, much the same as America (well, kinda). Besides, history is written by the victors, so Imperial historicians would probably write all about the evil enslavers and their unholy machines. Perhaps they had actually helped a couple of worlds advance their technology only to have them use the technolgy to blow themselves up. They would be less reluctant to share any technology with outsiders. I'm sure the Adeptus Mechanicus would not be too happy about that or with their society. The Adeptus Mechanicus would have more than enough reason to abhor these people, simply because of their relationship with unholy machines. Of course this would mean that the society would be destroyed during the Great Crusade rather than later on. If you wish, we could go with a slightly more benevolent society that gets destroyed during the Age of Apostasy. What do you think? I personally like the idea that they were destroyed by the Alpha Legion. It makes the Alpha Legion looks good for the Anargo citizens, resulting in divided loyalties during the Horus Heresy, and it could also be a good way to show the manipulative way of the Alpha Legion. Perhaps Alpharius purposefully gave wrong information about this empire to the Emperor, portraying them as evil and ruthless, beyond any diplomatic solutions, because he needed great victories? Or would this be beneath Alpharius? We should be wary in making the later traitor-Primarchs too evil. From a certain point of view, some of them actually had good intentions all along, such as Magnus. *purges himself for heresy* |
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Post by Destecado on Apr 9, 2004 18:01:47 GMT -5
This would be interesting, yes, but we should steer away from the idea than all planets that are isolated slip into anarchy and barbarism after a few years. Sorry, this was a generalization. Not all worlds would slip into anarchy. Perhaps they actually had trade relations with several powerfull worlds in other sub-sectors. This would be especially cool! Something for the snake-tongued Alpha Legionnaires to play on when they try to give cultists the impression that they're really the good guys, while the Emperor betrayed them. That's true, and perhaps they had the best intentions, yet were misperceived as evil enslavers, much the same as America (well, kinda). Besides, history is written by the victors, so Imperial historicians would probably write all about the evil enslavers and their unholy machines. Definitely. The good they did is forgotten behind the fabrication or extreme emphasis placed on the harm they caused. Anything that remains from their society should only be remnants, perhaps a robot here or a small enclave of survivors there. I personally like the idea that they were destroyed by the Alpha Legion. It makes the Alpha Legion looks good for the Anargo citizens, resulting in divided loyalties during the Horus Heresy, and it could also be a good way to show the manipulative way of the Alpha Legion. Perhaps Alpharius purposefully gave wrong information about this empire to the Emperor, portraying them as evil and ruthless, beyond any diplomatic solutions, because he needed great victories? Or would this be beneath Alpharius? We should be wary in making the later traitor-Primarchs too evil. From a certain point of view, some of them actually had good intentions all along, such as Magnus. Expidience some times wins out in the end. Alpharius was a general, he needed to win victories. The more time spent negotiating and trying to reach a peaceful solution was time wasted from gaining glories and honors in battle. They Alpha Legion after all was the last legion to join the Great Crusade. Perhaps he felt that he was making up for lost time. He may have been convinced that a peaceful settlement couldn't be found or he might have just wanted to test his metal against what he viewed as a strong or capable foe. Whatever his descision the war would leave a good portion of the Cursed Sub-Sector devastated. Should we have the Alpha Legion? Maybe they had a recruitment facility in the sector to try to reclaim these losses while the main body of the legion moved on to carry on the Crusade. This would help explain why a force of Alpha Marines would still be in the vacinity after the outbreak of the Horus Heresy. Maybe they tried to rally the local populace to join them in the Heresy. This of course lead to another purge by the Imperium after the Battle for Earth. It would have taken a while for them to come out here. So perhaps the Cursed Sub-Sector became the rally point for traitor guard units and fleet assets. This was eventually smashed and the capital which had previously been under the control of the Alpha Legion was completely destroyed, neccesitating the movement of the capital to the Anargo sub-sector. The name of the world was stricken from the records and the sub-sector was renamed after the Anomaly, The Sargasso Gulf. Most people just call it cursed space or the cursed sub-sector. |
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Post by CELS on Apr 9, 2004 18:15:15 GMT -5
Expidience some times wins out in the end. Alpharius was a general, he needed to win victories. The more time spent negotiating and trying to reach a peaceful solution was time wasted from gaining glories and honors in battle. Indeed. We should use this reasoning to emphasize that the later traitor-Primarchs were not inherently evil, but that they were just more goal-oriented, to put it mildly Except Horus, the bastard. They Alpha Legion after all was the last legion to join the Great Crusade. Perhaps he felt that he was making up for lost time. He may have been convinced that a peaceful settlement couldn't be found or he might have just wanted to test his metal against what he viewed as a strong or capable foe. This would be open for interpretation, and perfect stuff for a biased report by an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor who's condemning a supposedly heretical historian who proposes that Alpharius had the best intentions. Whatever his descision the war would leave a good portion of the Cursed Sub-Sector devastated. Should we have the Alpha Legion? Maybe they had a recruitment facility in the sector to try to reclaim these losses while the main body of the legion moved on to carry on the Crusade. This would help explain why a force of Alpha Marines would still be in the vacinity after the outbreak of the Horus Heresy. Sounds like a good idea to me! Maybe they tried to rally the local populace to join them in the Heresy. This of course lead to another purge by the Imperium after the Battle for Earth. It would have taken a while for them to come out here. So perhaps the Cursed Sub-Sector became the rally point for traitor guard units and fleet assets. Right! So when the CSS rebelled against Anargo during the Age of Apostasy, the sector remembered what the CSS had been during the Horus Heresy, making them utterly ruthless in finally destroying the rebellious bastards. Which is why not one life was spared.... This was eventually smashed and the capital which had previously been under the control of the Alpha Legion was completely destroyed, neccesitating the movement of the capital to the Anargo sub-sector. The name of the world was stricken from the records and the sub-sector was renamed after the Anomaly, The Sargasso Gulf. Most people just call it cursed space or the cursed sub-sector. Hmm, fair enough. I suppose they'd have a scarier name for it though. The Abyss of the Damned, or something to that effect. You know how people in 40k like scary names |
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Post by Destecado on Apr 10, 2004 8:30:11 GMT -5
This discussion has been very good, but I think we are straying away from the topic of the thread. Before we destroy the strife era culture, we first have to better define what it was like. This will give us an idea of what remnants might be left in the CSS in the 41st milenium. For further discussions regarding the Alpha Legions involvement in the CSS, please go to the Alpha Legion thread. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 10, 2004 13:55:32 GMT -5
The general theory of 'micro-empires' is that they are, as mentioned above, the contracted remains of the former human 'empire'. The candles in the dark, as it were. Overall the idea being that in the Great Crusade these formed the core of Imperial expansion, since it's quicker to "take over" an established socio-economic group with a defined set of relationships (and communications), than impose it on random worlds... To that end it is likely that all of the subsectors, with the possible exception of Castellan, will have a history that extends back to pre-Great Crusade. Kage |
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This would mean that they survived the Great Crusade though, probably.
