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Post by Dazo on Dec 2, 2004 12:04:14 GMT -5
Can some one give me a breakdown of eccleisiastical hierachy in the imperium, I especially need to know how it works on worlds that are not cardinal worlds. I'm talking about Kolkhoz, I want them to lead a protest against the Governor, and I need to know the highest rank there would be on that world, also what would their powers be, can they declare someone a heretic, or if they were killed and the poeple rose up against the killers in a planet wide revolt would they be seen to be acting for the good of the Emperor and so not be virus bombed.
Could the top man on dorvaster sway an inquisitor into not killing the population.
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Post by CELS on Dec 2, 2004 12:56:55 GMT -5
I haven't read any of the fluff for ages now, so this is mostly from memory. Forgive me if I should be inaccurate.
In the Imperium, there are billions and billions of shrines. Each shrine is controlled by a Pontifex. The fluff mentions a Pontifex Mundanus as the supreme Ecclessiarchy member of a world, I think. You might actually want to check out SR: Tryphon, as the Tryphonian priesthood is frighteningly similar to the Ecclessiarchy organisation on other worlds.
I'd say that even a lowly Pontifex can declare a person a heretic, although some would be immune to these declerations. An Inquisitor, for example, wouldn't really care if a Pontifex on some backwater world declared him a heretic.
I don't understand the question about 'the killers in a planet'. Could you rephrase that?
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Post by Dazo on Dec 2, 2004 13:05:24 GMT -5
So this pontifex, he's disgusted with the governor, so he goes to have words, but the governor kills him, now un beknown to the governor there are cameras watching and the people see what happens so they rise up and start killing government officials and the governor himself(a copy of said execution also ends up on the desk of the head honcho of dorvaster). So that is the situation, would the people be gunned down for defying imperial law, or praised for defending the faith.
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Post by CELS on Dec 2, 2004 13:14:02 GMT -5
That depends  I would believe that the Imperium does not encourage every man to think for himself, and especially not to take justice in his own hands. If you encourage the people to kill an Imperial Commander for murdering a Pontifex one day, the next day they'll be killing an Inquisitor because he used excessive force  Unless the Governor had actually committed open heresy and openly committed vile crimes against the Emperor, I would say that any attempts to kill him would be punished by death, on most worlds. But again, it depends. The Ecclessiarchy might put enough pressure on the Adeptus Arbites and Inquisition to force them not to punish the civilians for their uprising. The Imperium is complex. |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 2, 2004 13:33:49 GMT -5
Thats what i'm counting on.
But if chaos cults were involved somehow in the uprising then I assume the outcome would be different...unless some mysterious individual actually gave the inquisition the names and adresses of said agitators so while the ecclesiarchy were calming the population the inquisition were hunting down the real traitors.
This would be to important a world to devastate msimply for the sake of a few heretics surely
So would the priests killed be elevated to saints or martyrs or would that be going to far.
And it is a Cardinal who holds the highest rank in a sector is it, theres not some kind of pope like equivilant, or bishop or some other strangely named individual
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Post by CELS on Dec 2, 2004 17:08:23 GMT -5
At this point, Dazo, I think we should stop talking about a hypothetical situation. Just tell us what exactly you have in mind, from the beginning, and spare no details.
Only when we can understand the entire situation can we tell you whether or not it is plausible.
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Post by Minister on Dec 2, 2004 17:37:14 GMT -5
The vast Adeptus Ministorum can be roughly divided into two parts. Although the functions of these two departments necessarily overlap, their major role within the Ecclesiarchy is centred on different fields. The lesser part of the Ecclesiarchy is headed by the Arch-Deacons, who oversee the running of the Ministorum as an organisation. It is the servants of the Arch-Deacons who calculate the tithes and ensure they are collected, regulate the construction of new shrines and temples and deal with the physical requirements of the organisation.
Each diocese has its Arch-Deacon, and most parishes within the diocese have a Deacon in its main shrine. They process the money coining into and out of the parish: the spiritualities (money given to the Ecclesiarchy in return for services of a spiritual nature) and the temporalities (wealth and power associated with the land, and properties owned by the Ecclesiarchy). Behind the scenes are many clerks and auditors who work to keep everything running as smoothly as possible.
The rest of the Ecclesiarchy is wholly devoted to the spiritual aspects of the organisation. They are the Cardinals and Preachers, the Missionaries arid Confessors, who conduct the worship of the Emperor and enforce the religious doctrines of the Ecclesiarch. There are several smaller organisations within the main body of the Ecclesiarchy, each with their own specific role.
FRATERIS CLERGY
The bulk of the Ministorum consists of the Frateris clergy: the Preachers, Confessors and Cardinals who see to the spiritual needs of mankind. It is they who perform the services and messes, bless the warriors of the Imperium and save the souls of the faithful from damnation. At the top of the hierarchy is the Ecclesiarch himself, reigning from the Ecclesiarchal palaces on Terra. He is the head of the Holy Synod and directs the debates and discussions of the Cardinals.
There are several thousand Cardinals, each one responsible for a separate diocese in the Imperium. Within the Holy Synod, there are three ranks of Cardinals. Although these ranks are mostly honorary and one Cardinal has little power over another diocese, the traditions and ceremonies of the Imperial Creed demand that every member know his rightful place in the works of the Emperor. Highest in rank are the five Cardinals Palatine, who serve within the enclaves of the Imperial Palace itself and have no formal diocese but assist the Ecclesiarch in his duties.
Below them are the Cardinals Terran, who control dioceses on Earth. The lowest rank are the Cardinals Astral who are divided into two further categories: the Astral and the Astral Ministra. The Astral Ministra serve on Ophelia VII and the nearby systems and make up the Synod Ministra founded by Ecclesiarch Thor I.
Beneath the Cardinals are the Confessors and Preachers, along with the Schola Progenium Abbots and members of the Missionarus Galaxia operating within their diocese. Many of these posts are aided by a host of subservient functionaries, such as Logistoras, Quire Masters, Reliquindus and so on.
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Post by CELS on Dec 2, 2004 18:44:55 GMT -5
Where is that from, Minister? I've read it before, but can't remember where. I guess it's not from the Codex: Imperialis, because I'm sure that includes information on the Pontifex-people as well.
It might actually be helpful if someone could post the official fluff on Pontifexes too.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 3, 2004 3:46:44 GMT -5
And list the ranks that would be present on different types of world. Would every world have a simmilar ecclesiastical presence
How big is a diocese by the way, is it one world or a whole sector
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Post by Minister on Dec 3, 2004 7:22:23 GMT -5
By the looks of it, it would vary immensley. Terra has several, but then again it is terra. Most likley out on the fringes it covers several sectors. Around about the Anargo sector I would say several sub-sectors to a Dicoesse.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 3, 2004 7:26:44 GMT -5
So that would be 2-3 then, do you have any idea which subs would be in which Diocese, or would it just be which ever ones were closest to each other.
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Post by Minister on Dec 3, 2004 7:35:40 GMT -5
It would make sense to have at least one centred on Anargo and another on Dorvastor... This is more me thinking in type than actually giving a well-thought out opinion, by the way.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 3, 2004 7:38:43 GMT -5
Well having just looked at the maps and the relative positions of the sub sectors I think your right, as they seem to be bunched in two groups of three, it would make sense to have 2 dioceses centered around the worlds you suggest.
I would have thought Dorvaster would have had a higher ranking priest than Anargo though.
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Post by Minister on Dec 7, 2004 10:51:38 GMT -5
IMO:
A Cardinal Primus has nominal authority over several Dicoesses (a Cardinal Primus exists, no mention of the duties has been made. I am extrapolating). He has little authority over another, but in matters where asingle Cardinal is to speak for the sector, he will be called upon.
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 11, 2004 11:15:39 GMT -5
Anargo would actively "resist" the power of the adeptus ministorum. That is not to say that they would fight them, merely not be bowing and snivelling to the dress-wearing monkeys that they are... This is by means to say that the Diocese around Dorvastor would have more direct influence, partially as a result of more ready integration of secular and ecclesiastical power, but also as a by product of the nature of the worlds around Dorvastor. The idea, of course, is to create another level of 'tension' in the Anargo sector beyond the socio-economic. |
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