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Post by Destecado on Jan 11, 2005 10:18:22 GMT -5
I'm still working may way through posting feedback on the entire text, but I will come back and reply to your comments afterwords. There however was one issue that came up that I did want to address right away.
The UWP listed in the SR thread for proculus is as follows.
C437429-8 Ba, Lo, 314 Im 55H
Unless something has been changed or edited within the universal world profile code listings, the copy I downloaded shows the second to last position before the tech level (the number highlighted green) as the value for the law level. The last position prior to the tech level (number highlighted yellow) represents the type of government.
If this is inaccurate, please let me know. All of the expanded UWP listings I have generated were calculated with these positions representing these values.
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Post by Dazo on Jan 11, 2005 12:30:06 GMT -5
I have always worked to the assumption that law level was the last digit before tech level. I think we need clarification from Kage or CELS here as I am now unsure which is which I have set what I consider as Law level to 8, I could without great incovenience change both to 2, that shouldn't actually change very much, other than most types of weapon being allowed for the workers. What would you like me to do as i'm easy and ive still not finished responding to all the comments you have made so far, once this is sorted let me do that then you post the rest of your comments that way confusing and meandering posts should be avoided.
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Post by Destecado on Jan 11, 2005 13:19:38 GMT -5
I have always worked to the assumption that law level was the last digit before tech level. I think we need clarification from Kage or CELS here as I am now unsure which is which A little clarification from either would be great. With regards to Proculus, I see no reason why the law level should not be lowered to 2 (anything short of handheld energy weapons). There will of course be areas where these would be restricted, but there are no restrictions on owning them. Also, here is the last part of the feedback on the history of Proculus, The question arises about the thoroughness of this survey or for the actual reasons given as to why the planet was passed over for colonization or at least exploitation mechanized mining equipment…Adeptus Mechanicus servitor mining. It could be that the value of the resources was outweighed by the cost it would take to extract them and house the miners. The company may have had access to the scouts report. They may have had technology or some other way of reducing the cost of mining, which would have made such an operation cost effective. The Imperium, always hungry for resources, would probably have let them have the world or at the very least administer it if they could get to the resources. I know that you had said you were dropping your other mining worlds in the Meksum sector. Is Koralla one of those being dropped? Perhaps the Cartel or the mining company, either by their corporate organization or use of a special technology can reduce the costs necessary for extracting the resources. The Imperial scouts would not have missed this. It may have been the original reason that they did not colonize the world. It could have been marked for further exploration by a IG unit or heavily armed survey mission. The terraforming would have probably sent up a flag, that something was amiss on Proculus. It could have pointed to a previously unknown alien race living on the planet or perhaps forces of chaos with some base on the world that the scans had not originally picked up. A large liquid ocean underneath an ice sheet which could be as thick as 100 km could hide many things. BTW were these scans done by the Adeptus Mechanicus? What organization were the Imperial scouts from, who originally surveyed the planet? Based on the lower gravity of the planet, I’m not too sure how extensive the amounts of heavy elements would be. Some of this would depend on how the planet formed…but generally, the heavier elements would have a tendancy to sink towards the core, so it may be that large amounts of heavier elements would not be present... just something to consider. Of course, if the base is relying on fusion reactors, there might be a large amount of He3 (helium 3) stored in the ice. It could be that the company was using the mining operation as a cover in order to investigate the earlier readings. If they could find the technology that had been used to partially terraform the world, it might benefit them elsewhere. Unfortunately, before they are able to find anything substantial or beneficial, the Adeptus Mechanicus returns to conduct its own investigation. What became of this? Even if you add in rumors of strange ships arriving in system heading to the excavation site and then leaving, without ever contacting the habit or maybe even having a side bar with an internal memorandum from the R&D (research and development) division of the company describing what was found or what they think it is even if they have not fully figured it out yet. You may want to provide exact dates, talking abut Millennium 38 and then Millennium 39 makes it look like a lot of time passed before the arrival of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Maybe the AM became aware of the excavation or they had intercepted the communications about the excavation. It could also be that the info came to them through a miner who left. He could have been talking about it in a bar and the info some how got back to the AM. This could have strained relations between the company and the AM. Perhaps this is why the overseer on Proculus was instructed to provide any aid or equipment that the AM request. I don’t think you should explain what the base is. This could be a plot hook to draw players to the planet. If there is a GM (Game Master) section for each system, you could perhaps list possible ideas for what might have been found in the ice, but in the end, it should be left up to the GM to decide what is actually there. It could be a downed space ship, an alien facility, a Golden Age of Technology construct or hundreds of other possibilities. You could always have a rumors section, where NPC miners discuss what was found. These could be partially the truth or complete red hearings for the players. Definitely not. Proculus is a marginal world (low gravity, thin atmosphere) and should remain so. It reminds me too much of the end of Total Recall (the alien device within minutes turns Mars into a world with a breathable atmosphere. I know you were not taking it that far, but the lure of making a world more earth standard simply by adding a little technology exists with every system out there. Part of the challenge I see is designing ways or systems that would allow humans to live in extreme environments.
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Post by Dazo on Jan 11, 2005 14:28:11 GMT -5
I agree there might be some accidental deaths, but not as many as your suggesting, rock slides and cave ins in the newer mining areas might be more likely than thin ice. I think I might employ servitors and automated ice extractors for the ice mines, and let the human workers take on the land mining, of which strip mining would probably make up the majority. Deep mining would be the most dangerous and highly paid work. Yep that is a possibility, though maybe for mental health reasons it might not occur that often, perhaps a bad experience in the past persuaded the company that short term contracts were the way forward. Think Outland, thats the image I have, bars and other recreational activities like pool halls and brothels, which I consider a medical requirement as much as anything else. Don't like the term prostitue, how about companion then. And yes the company gives them contracts aswell, though they actually would work for another Corporation that also happens to be part of the ATC. There might well be an illicit drug trade, there always is, but these would be military grade drugs and other very dangerous substances. Everything else would be legally supplied by the company, or possibly the Reemus foundation who are the drug equivalent of the mining corporation. I'd like to work for your company no you have to pay for there services out of your own pocket, but it would be credited and then with drawn from your final paypacket. To a degree, you can't really buy loads of rations to then go wandering of for years at a time, you could probably have a wander about outside along the gantrys and the vehicle bays, but you cant just hop on a jeep and go of cruising, like you said its to dangerous, and new workers are only brought in so often. Plasma/fusion reactors (they are the same thing) would be the mainstay of power generation but charge collectors and wind turbine would also be used, i didn't even think about other power sources, I'm glad you pointed them out. Every type of mining under the sun I would imagine, so they would need everything. But thats the expertise the company brings with them, thats why they are so good and rich. Again the company has experience with this sort of thing, they have grav plate tech, the normalised gravity is vital for thr running of the colony and all its factories and smelters, as well as for the physical well being of the workers. Only humans, though if squats still existed you can bet your bottom dollar they would be employed by the company ...bloody hive fleet...why couldn't they devour the rattlings instead Thats sort of what I intimate at, I wasnt clear enough in that regard it seems. I'll alter it to make it more obvious thats what I mean. You wouldnt want loud mouth goons either, I actually think this would be a perfect place for brooding loners, especially for people whose wives leave them and take the kid with them, leaving only a vid recording version of a dear john I agree with everything you said about this. Including the sheriff, lets call him the Marshal though its more frontier like. I need to redo that bit, they will be spread out, with mag rail connections and flyers for the more inaccessable regions, with connection hubs and power relays spread out like a spider web across the surface. Thats exactly what they are. And sea water is a good source of deutirium, could they perhaps extract heavy water from deep wells drilled down into the liquid oceans beneath the ice. Could the ice be altered into heavy water or is it only liquid water that this can happen to. Still not finished, give me time to get my breath back
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Post by Dazo on Jan 11, 2005 15:06:56 GMT -5
Neither do I.
Thats what i thought, that was my exact thought in fact.
Yes it is, that sentence should have been removed. And a new reason inserted, if I haven't already that is.
That was the idea, but it seems that would be a threat to the imperium...I'm not dead yet though and I have found a kind of precedent that might allow the cartels to keep their advanced tech.
The Fleet, who were probably looking for strategically valuable worlds rather than mundane worlds even if they did show signs of ancient terraforming.
Well I don't know, it was just a quick fix reason as to why this world might have been terraformed, its not exactly gold plated and gem encrusted, so why would some one go to all the trouble of making it habitable.
That was the plan.
I think I did further down, I say that what the Mechanicus found out was exactly what the cartel scientists had found out, except the got there first and then reburied it before the Mechanicus arrived. The Mechanicus were informed by the company, who don't want any trouble with the technobullies.
It was only about 5 years difference.
I'm not allowed, Kage and CELS said I couldn't be all mysterious about it and that I had to say what it was.
Its like if you do something bad, you want to make it look like your innocent and being as helpful as humanly possible so...
I agree but the confines of the colony can be normalised, thats all I was meaning by that. The planet is still low G
Hence only in the colony is life support a priority. outside what you see is what you get.
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Post by CELS on Jan 11, 2005 15:25:09 GMT -5
A GM can still be secretive about the nature of a GAoT relic, even if the SR includes a description of what it really is, assuming that the players didn't read the SR. If they did read it, then it should be possible for RPGers to keep their character oblivious to what's going on, right?
As for the UWP, government comes before law, IIRC. So it's Starport, Size, Atmosphere, Hydrosphere, Population, Government, Law and Tech Level.
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Post by Destecado on Jan 11, 2005 18:52:17 GMT -5
As for the UWP, government comes before law, IIRC. So it's Starport, Size, Atmosphere, Hydrosphere, Population, Government, Law and Tech Level. If this is the case, then there is a typo in the PDF file for the UWP key. I agree there might be some accidental deaths, but not as many as your suggesting, rock slides and cave ins in the newer mining areas might be more likely than thin ice. I think I might employ servitors and automated ice extractors for the ice mines, and let the human workers take on the land mining, of which strip mining would probably make up the majority. Deep mining would be the most dangerous and highly paid work. Fair enough...the estimated death rate I originally posted might have been too high. With regards to deep mining, are you referring to extracting minerals from the land mass or trying to drill down to the liquid water? BTW, how thick were you intending the ice layer above the liquid sea to be? They could be rotated through on tours of duty like the crews of submarines. Ther might also be rooms with the habitat that are large and open...maybe with lots of plants, to try to counter act the effects of long term living in cramped conditions. Fair enough..and companions it is. As a side thought, the companions could also be another form of control on the workers. People don't go to companions just for sex...although most do. Some might want someone to talk with or a chance to to just relax in clean sheets in a larger room with some one to wait on them. It may sound odd, but if you've been far away from home, eating in a cafeteria with several hundred other workers, sometimes a "home cooked" meal and someone treating you like your the most important person in the world might be what some workers are looking for. Companions would be part prositutue (or as they prefer sexual surrogate), part therapist and converstionalist. Of course you would have different levels of companions. Each level would have its own cost and rating. The higher levels of companions would be on par with cortizans or geishas...the lower levels...well, that should be obvious. there would also be male and female companions. Fair enough. This does bring into question the work schedules for miners. How many days a week are they down in the mines. Do they work maybe four days (12 hour shifts) in a row and then have a certain number of hours off before beginning their rotation again. How do you see the work rotation and down time being scheduled? I have no problem with it. I just wanted to make sure that it had been oked on by the powers that be (namely Kage). Good reference to the dear John. Loud mouthed goons would probably be screened out in the selction process. The only reason I point out that brooding loner types might be screened out or at least monitored more closely, is because they may just be quite individuals that keep to themselves or they may be ticking time bombs of rage and emotion just waiting to go off at the worst moment possible. Marshal it is. Would there be different levels of marshals? Is there a high marshal or what is the break down of seniority? maybe the rail lines can be put through the played out tunnel system to avoid the effects of the winds. You might also want to mark mining areas on the map and rail lines as well when you rework it. I see no reason why if you melt the ice you could not make it into heavy water, but I'll look into it.
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Post by Dazo on Jan 12, 2005 4:58:45 GMT -5
Well I don't really go into great detail about it anyway, so there is still room for conjecture. The landmass in some places the Ice would be at least a mile deep, probably the polar regions, which are the coldest, either way all the Ice on the planet is thick enough to support the weight of everyone on the colony. They are rotated, just to different planets mined by the company. I suppose I could make the contract optional, 5-10 years being the smallest and up to life for those who like the job security, If you take the life contract I imagine you would get some pretty sweet retirement deals, a home on the world of your choice maybe, a nice fat pension I agree with the talking side of things, but not to a professional extent, the company would provide psychiatrists and what not along with doctors. The Companions might be well trained in their own proffesion, which would allow for high class services as well as the more fundamental needs, so they would offer a menu if you like, with escalating prices. Working to terran standard, 1 day per week of, 8 hour shifts working 6 days a week, there would be 3 shifts every day. 1 week per year would be given to holiday/rest activities, these could be saved so you skip one year but the following take 2 weeks unpaid vacation. They spend money but that money goes right back to the company, who deduct all credited spending from the workers final pay. So some people might leave with not a lot as they have spent it all on beer and loose women and probably drugs. Sounds like me possibly or they could just be shy, not every social outcast is a potential whirlwind of death and blood. But yes their psych evaluation should point them out and an eye would be kept on them. I see the Marshal as being at the top, maybe deputy marshals below him then the security personel below them. I also see the Marshal as having a powerful mandate, one that even the Overseer would have to defer to, perhaps in the event of an emergency the Marshal would have the final word. I'll do that, it should be interesting
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Post by Tynesh on Jan 12, 2005 9:28:24 GMT -5
I say Des, you sure do like your railway in a tube idea! I seem you mentioning it somewhere else. #COUGH-MASSIL-COUGH# Reminds me of the Simpsons episode with the dodgey Monorail salesman guy ;D
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Post by Dazo on Jan 12, 2005 11:02:28 GMT -5
Well i've updated the map with the mag rails and hubs and other mining operations, let me know what you think. I've also marked the no go area on there aswell, i think it looks quite good.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 12, 2005 23:10:40 GMT -5
A little clarification from either would be great. <Kage digs out the Guide, realises the he also mixes things up all the time but then realises that the Guide shows the correct system and wonders why people don't have it> The statistics on the UWP statline are (ignoring star-type, class and co-ordinates): Starport / Size / Atmosphere / Hydrographics / Population / Law / Government - Traveller Tech Level... Bases... Trade Codes... Travel Zones... Population Multiplier / Planet Belts / Gas Giants... Allegiance... Life / Resources / Export Damn I got them mixed up in my mind more than I thought!
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Post by Dazo on Jan 13, 2005 4:25:38 GMT -5
The guide I use which I downloaded from here places government before law, I have always done it that way, as has CELS and everyone who we have helped with there worlds, did you do it that way as well kage if so maybe we should change the UWP statline and say government before Law, it actually makes more sense that way anyway, you cant decide on law until you know the way the population is governed.
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Post by Destecado on Jan 13, 2005 10:37:11 GMT -5
I say Des, you sure do like your railway in a tube idea! I seem you mentioning it somewhere else. #COUGH-MASSIL-COUGH# Both ideas are for rail systems, but that is pretty much where the similarity ends. The Massil system is constructed to allow transportation, but also create a backbone of fortifications that can support the local area in case of attack. The reason that I was recomending that the transit system run through the old mines was to avoid the 200 mph winds that blow across the planet. This transit system could consist of pressurized travel cars or could be as simple as continuous circuit of mine cars that the workers would hop into. They would be in their pressure suits, but plug into an air system and power unit in the car so that they did not overtax or run down the systems in their suit. I was trying to find a picture of the type of car that I was talking about, but unfortunately haven't been able to locate one at the moment. Suffice to say, they have a very low silloette. the miners sit almost half reclined in the car as they head down the tunnel.
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