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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Aug 12, 2004 11:17:59 GMT -5
Interstellar travel is possible and plausible without Navigators, e.g. the calculated jump. All the same, no major trading cartel would operate without the support of at least 1 major navigator family. oh rite - i meant for future referance (999 m.41)
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Post by zholud on Aug 13, 2004 1:03:57 GMT -5
It is, however, stated in your description of Meksum that it has a great distrust of Navigators due to mutation - making it difficult for rogue/free traders to recruit Uh, it is other way round, MAAM Navigators are greatly mutated and traders are afraid to recruit mutants, even in spite they can be even better in that job. And while Meksum, as any Hiveworld have the widest variety of opinions on any subject including xenophobia and xenophilia, the consensus opinion is much less strict even in comparison with average in the Imperium. Recall, Meksum supposedly deals with true xenos, it is part of culture there.
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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Aug 13, 2004 4:27:51 GMT -5
true they are afraid of recruiting mutants.
However, with warp jumps being unrealiable (tho entirely feasible) inter-sector, or even inter-system trading of any any real scale is inpractical without the aid of navigators. Small scale traders would be reluctant to hire them - but trading corporations would see them as a nessecary evil.
Also, they dont recruit them for any purpose other than warp transit of goods over long distances. *shudders at blasphemous suggestion of mutants freely walking the decks of Imperial vessels*
Also, to clarify, Darien is in no way tolerant of mutation per se (the Hereticus ensure that), but the presence of the IN and the traders ensure that Navigators are at least accepted, and on Darien they are even respected.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 21, 2004 2:03:12 GMT -5
However, with warp jumps being unrealiable (tho entirely feasible) inter-sector, or even inter-system trading of any any real scale is inpractical without the aid of navigators. I disagree, though primarily from reading a great deal into the fact that "average" transit times are listed in the 'fluff'. A ship travelling through the warp knows that, on average, if they enter the warp and travel for this given period of time along the correctly plotted route they will end up roughly at their destination in a variable amount, but most predictable period of time. It's kind of the whole 2-sigma deal on errors... This is what calculated jumps are. Short jumps making use of the ability of 'machines' to take 'snap shots' of the warp and use the images to compile a 'best course' which, given certain variables, may then be used to guestimate a 'waypoint' course over short distances... The longer your course, the more likely it is that you're going to come up short, i.e. something nasty happen. Then you've got to think about what 'nasty' means. He suggests that a substantial chunk of the time you 'disappear', which is highly doubtful. The more likely situation is that you're throw off-course, or whatever. Doing the Bermuda should be rare, as should your ship attracting sharks unless you happen to be throwing out lots of champ. Sorry... warp travel is another one of those things that I like to think about.
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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Aug 21, 2004 5:29:50 GMT -5
The thing is the warp is by nature unpredictable, and calculated routes, while serving the free trader with his occasional trips perfectly well, a trading corp with a rigid timetable, set orders/quotas and deadlines 2 b met, a Navigator would be nessecary to correct the course to meet inevitable warp anomalies (bearing in mind that unlike real space, the immaterium is a constantly changing sea of energy. I see warp travel w/o a navigator as similar to sea travel w/o a compass - feasible and even reliable in calm seas and on a set route, and for occassional short journeys, but not advisble for P&O and other shipping lines, and impossible in a storm.
Also navigators would not be used on every voyage - many inter-system and even inter-subsector voyages are conducted by calculated jumps, but for inter-sector transit and somtimes inter sub sector transit - a navigator would be used.
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Post by Kage2020 on Aug 21, 2004 8:36:07 GMT -5
Self-evidently standard 'tramp' operations thought does not work in the Imperium.
We also share a similar concept to the difference between Navigated and calculated warp travel. Indeed, I've used exactly the same analogy elsewhere. I however point you to the fact that substantial trade networks are possible over short trans-sea journeys (oceanic is a bit of a git) and, yes, storms muddy the situation but no more than when you have a piece of magnetic material with you.
I would say that standard 'tramp freight', or whatever, situations do not exist within the Imperium but suggesting that all civil large-scale movement requires a Navigator is not the best way to go. With that said, however, there has always been the suggestion of a 'warp convoy' predicated upon some of the original Tyranid 'fluff'...
I would also suggest that perhaps 'support' might not be the best method of talking about civil and Navigator relations. I would suggest that it is purely a business relationship: services performed for services or goods received to the value.
Navigators are fine, but the concept of having significant Navigator house presence...? Hmmmmnnn....
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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Aug 21, 2004 12:54:53 GMT -5
I would also suggest that perhaps 'support' might not be the best method of talking about civil and Navigator relations. I would suggest that it is purely a business relationship: services performed for services or goods received to the value. Navigators are fine, but the concept of having significant Navigator house presence...? Hmmmmnnn.... That may well be better - as while they are useful (ill avoid saying essential as the navigator issue is probably best debated in another thread) to the trade cartels, they are outsiders (and each trade cartel distrusts the others - let alone off worlder mutants) Navigators are very political erm...creatures... and it is unlikely that one house would support every cartel. As a result of the distrust towards mutants they live in an orbital city divided between representatives of the major Navigator families in the Segmentum. These offer their services in exchange for goods etc, or favours to further their obscure plans, and it is not uncommon for different Navigator Houses to support a cartel at different times.
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 7:25:29 GMT -5
So which world are you using, 54,45,59 C674400-5 or B334314-9.
Also have you generated some new world details because there are serious problems with what you have at the minute, eg
mmm the oceans would boil and people would explode at these pressures
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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Sept 1, 2004 7:32:57 GMT -5
ive fixed the atsmopheric pressure so it now reflects a Terra-like atsmophere. Im using the second UWP B334314-9.
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 7:45:26 GMT -5
Ah good, so how have you over come the problem inherant in all small bodies, ie small size tends to lead to low mass which often means low gravity and low atm, not to mention the rapid cooling of the planets core. Darien is the size of the earth moon so how did it retain its atmosphere, is it somthing to do with the doomsday weapon.
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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Sept 1, 2004 7:49:11 GMT -5
The planet was first colonised during the Dark Age of Technology so its atsmophere was terraformed when it was first colonised, creating a breathable atsmophere for the original promethium miners.
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 7:57:04 GMT -5
Right, thats a good explanation, however, without a way to maintain the gravity the atmosphere would simply bleed back into space. This in no way prevents you from using the world it mearly means the inhabitants would need EV suits to walk around out side. Unless you have a mechanism to prevent this, how about massive force fields that hold in the atmosphere around the cities, that would be very DAoT. Can I ask why did you pick this particular world, was it the naval base or its proximity to Meksum?
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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Sept 1, 2004 8:00:48 GMT -5
both the naval base, and its proximity to meksum influenced my decision. Prehaps another purpose of the sattelite system is to maintain the gravity/atsmophere by the use of large grav-fields?
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Post by Dazo on Sept 1, 2004 8:09:50 GMT -5
They would be more like suppression fields, do you think that would be possible? On my world Proculus they used gravity generators to increase the planets gravity during the DAoT, but they stopped working so the world lost its gravity and at the moment it is to advanced to be repaired by the AM.
Or this one's just as close 56,49,52 - M-V - A6888BA-8 S,N 814 Im 19(20) has a scout base and a high export value(very good for trade) and would require no fidiling of figures to fit into your concept(meaning you wouldn't have to change anything or come up with radical solutions to your gravity problems)
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Post by Witch-Finder General Kyron on Sept 1, 2004 8:11:14 GMT -5
that would be worth trying out. Ill run it through the generator and see what i come up with.
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