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Post by CELS on Dec 1, 2004 8:34:25 GMT -5
The observation that the Castellan frontier is still fortified is spot on: my original idea was that the sub was split down the middle by a line of fortified worlds, orks held some worlds on the far edge of the subsector, the threat of further incursions was real and constant and so the Imperial-held worlds in Castellan are heavily militarised and under control of the Lord Militant Protector. As me and Kage placed the ork empire, I had the idea that it would be in the very distant corner of the Anargo sector. The Castellan subsector opposite, would be a sort of shield of fortress worlds, listening posts and naval bases, with a heart of heavily fortified agriworlds and factory worlds. The no-man's land that is constantly being fought over would actually be found between the Ork empire and Castellan subsector, as I saw it. This means that the Castellan subsector used to be bigger before the Orks returned to the sector en masse in M36. Sounds lovely! I wish you'd have time to expand on the Castellan subsector soon. I'd much rather read about this situation than the Frost Bringers, to be honest. Ah well. If we stick with the current picture of this region, which has a large area of space between the Ork empire and the Castellan sub, then there is even greater chance of an enclave forming.
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Post by Tynesh on Dec 1, 2004 16:38:27 GMT -5
There are many problems with the sub-sector as it is at the moment. This mainly stemmed from the problem of not having a chart of the region when we first started out. Here is a chart Kage did a while ago, updated with some names and all the locations in the sub. Any changes I can do another chart so no problems there. img.photobucket.com/albums/v147/Tynesh/Castellan_Subsector7.jpgThe biggest problem is the orientation of the sub, the ork empire in Anargo is located towards the top left as you look at it. Anargo Prime is to the right and deeper into the page. This makes it look as if Massil, one of the main fortress worlds is further from the threat than the relatively safe Parcellum. Horp's Station on the supposed frontier is much closer to Anargo and not located in the wilderness. I am going to suggest a major development in the background of the Sector. Please make this into a sensible discussion as it will become important later on. We need some development doing and this will be a development. I am proposing returning the Sub-sector Capital from Parcellum back to Massil. It will be situated on a fortified, populated and defensible world. Unlike Parcellum where there was a low population and only a small mining/agri world. The original story had the capital moved from Massil following the planet's invasion in M36. Parcellum was chosen as it was further from the frontier, closer to Anargo, and 'safer'. I think that consolidating the capital onto Massil will encourage me to speed up development of the SR and strengthen the background of the Sub. I have been finding it difficult to reason why a small mining world would house a space station and administrative centre of an entire sub-sector. Letmeknow your thoughts. Tynesh
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Post by CELS on Dec 2, 2004 7:33:44 GMT -5
Was not the Castellan subsector named after a world called Castellan? I seem to recall that the capital would actually be a fortress world. I don't remember anything about Parcellum being the capital.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 2, 2004 7:46:19 GMT -5
Thats how I thought things were supposed to work CELS, if Massil is the capitol then should it not be called the Massil sub sector. Or just rename the world of Massil Castellan, and start a new fortress world called Massil. As it stands its vety confusing Nice map but it needs to be re orientated, Kolkhoz is not supposed to be on the frontier of ork space(though I am thrilled to actually see where it is on the map .) I think, as you said Tynesh, it will be easier to get the backgrounds sorted out if we know where the worlds actually are.
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Post by CELS on Dec 2, 2004 7:58:12 GMT -5
There are a few solutions as I see it.
1) We have to change our plan for the Castellan sub. Instead of having a 'shield' of fortress worlds, it will look a lot like a normal subsector, with fortress worlds here and there. Thus, the fortress worlds will be on the frontier, in the heart and in the Anargo-side of the Castellan sub.
2) We have to change our plan for many worlds within the Castellan sub.
This world -10,39,10 - M-VI - X596000-0 Ba Lo 024 Im 290- which was classified as barren, could easily be turned into a fortress world. It has water and resources, and the atmosphere might be breathable, or at least close enough to have humans going outside with small rebreather masks.
Saylonia is supposed to be a feudal world, but I suggest we turn its original destination (11,37,6) into a fortress world, and move Saylonia to another subsector. There should be plenty of alternative mainworlds, and as far as I know, Sojourner hasn't started work yet.
3) We could expand the Castellan subsector, like I suggested for the Anargo sub. Maybe there are worlds closer to the ork empire that could be used as fortress worlds. This would contribute further to the situation Sikkukkut wanted, where the borders of the Castellan sub and the Ork empire are only seperated by a small area of systems that are constantly fought over.
4) (My favourite) All of the above.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 2, 2004 8:16:26 GMT -5
That does actually make more sense, as only certain types of world would actually lend themselves to being a fortress world, and they are not all going to be conveniently lined up for us. This way each fortress world would have a small sphere of influence over surrounding worlds, much like castles were the fortified focal point of a city or villages in its vicinity. Indeed, not even that maybe, Seleca has an atmosphere of 9, I think its its size and star type that maybe makes it a poor choice for a normal world, but would suit a fortress world down to the ground. Is that because Castellan was un occupied before Anargo became an imperial sector. I agree, the imperium is not likely to found feudal worlds. ;D you got my vote, its supposed to be the bulwark against ork invasion, but with so few worlds that match its needs it can't do a very good job. That is a much more interesting idea than having such an arbitrary cut of point as it does at the minute. The imperium would want the orks pushed as far away from its capitol worlds as possible
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 2, 2004 22:17:24 GMT -5
Expanding the Castellan subsector... Is not the Castellan subsector larger than the other subsectors in the first place, regardless of the actual number of stars in it? Remember the GW definition of subsectors, which broadly defined the size of the query used on the SP database...
If the worlds do not fit the orientation of the 'ork empire', which has remained unchanged since early on in the project well... Surely this just means that the worlds need to be changed around, as suggested.
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Post by Dazo on Dec 3, 2004 6:56:11 GMT -5
Well yes your right kage the orientation does need to be changed, but that is not going to make up for the short fall of worlds that are capable of being fortress worlds, and if you make the few worlds there are available fortress worlds there is actually nothing left that would be considered viable(to small, deadly atmosphere, no atmosphere, no resources) for creating another type of world. For example of the 16 world available for world building in castellan, 4 have deadly atmospheres, 7 are what I would call uncodusive to large scale population(to many problems would have to be overcome before any kind of large scale military presence could be maintained) That leaves 5 worlds, that have to include fortress worlds, agri worlds, factory worlds and so on.
However a few changes of atmosphere would solve the problem with out the need to expand it to include more stars, and it would be much quicker.
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Post by Tynesh on Dec 4, 2004 4:14:32 GMT -5
It is not so much of a problem that the worlds don't fit the correct orientation.....the background can easily be tweaked. It would be better to get more planets to develop, get more people interested in the sub etc.
The planets we have developed do form a plane within the sub, but since there appears to be only about five inhabited planets then the defended frontier ain't that strong!
Access to more planets between the current location and the Ork Empire would be good to develop post apocalyspe worlds etc.
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Post by Tynesh on Dec 4, 2004 4:25:42 GMT -5
On the name of the Sub-Sector, Massil and how things should be.
Castellan - meaning keeper or governor of a castle
This implies to me that our sub-sector here is a defensive and fortified region (which it is). Could it be that the Massil Sub-sector (pre invasion) located around Massil; had its name changed after the invasion. One to inspire the people of the sub, it was a great line of defence and would hold no matter what.
Maybe the control of the Castellan Sub fell to just one person? As I believe the case is each world has its governor etc. The Adeptus Terra administrates each sub-sector with no one in overall control. Only the Lord Commander ANargo would be of higher power?
So maybe the capital never left Massil, but the name was changed to reflect this newly created position and the new defensive nature of the sub-sector. Remember that it was primarily an agricultural region before the invasion and was not defended to a high degree.
Thoughts etc?
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Post by Dazo on Dec 4, 2004 5:08:54 GMT -5
That could be mitigated by tweaking the UWPs slightly, rather than having a whole swathe of new worlds added. A few new worlds on the edge of the sector wouldn't hurt though.
Thats a really good idea, you should add that explanation to the history of castellan bit as it would really help to clear up the confusion surrounding the name.
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Post by Sikkukkut on Dec 4, 2004 6:06:13 GMT -5
Maybe the control of the Castellan Sub fell to just one person? ]--snip-- So maybe the capital never left Massil, but the name was changed to reflect this newly created position and the new defensive nature of the sub-sector. Both of these fit well with my original concept of the sub. The idea is that Castellan is definitely not a run-of-the-mill sub: most of its worlds are part of an extensive militarised zone ruled by the Lord Militant Protector, whose office and authority are military in nature. As for layout, I have no problem with cutting and shuffling planets around if the sub works better for it. For example, if we swapped Kolholz with that barren planet in the upper right quadrant of the sector we've gone some way to clustering the inhabited planets in one region of the sub and the barren ones in another - if those barren ones turn into the contested zone (with the Pendulum Tide running through them) that seems to fit the overall narrative rather neatly.
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 5, 2005 8:22:42 GMT -5
As I've been mentioned, and I am still vaguely interested in this, can someone help me out with the UWP? I'm not entirely sure what all the numbers mean even having read the Guide and downloaded and played with H&E. Is there something I've missed?
What's the deal on moving it, by the way? I can bump up the GTL a bit if it's supposed to be a mainworld, I'm not set on it being primitive. Whatever suits, I guess.
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Post by CELS on Jan 5, 2005 8:54:02 GMT -5
I'll try to find a good world for you. What do you want? Fortress world?
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Post by Sojourner on Jan 5, 2005 8:58:09 GMT -5
I was talking about Saylonia. Or did you mean something to replace it?
Whatever, really. Something straightforward, Imperial, habitable, no weirdness.
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