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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 6, 2005 0:10:33 GMT -5
A number of threads have been brought to my attention recently and, while I have broadly kept an eye on them, the fact that discussion has been so scattered. As usual, CELS has been good enough to post a quick summary and so I'm reply to that in this thread. (This also disassociates it from the previous discussion that has taken place...)
All of the above. This is quite simply a test case twards the end of the War in Heaven which was not subsequently capitalised on.
I would prefer that only with fragmentation did the 'rifts' begin to incorporate other systems.
Fine.
Ah, the joys of nicking my own ideas. This is, once again, fine. Bastarised eldar technology, gotta love it more so since it be used for RPG...
Seven major fragments and 'change', yes.
This is where the majority of the 'change' went, yes. Indeed, I remember reading through this idea and liking it before.
I would be careful with the term 'rift', but yes, this is fine.
It's all tied to universal consensus in the long run. But thanks for not including that thrice damned Cork Theory.
Clarification: The Aodiean homeworld was on one of the original 'artefact worlds' or one that was encompassed recently by the fracture of the proto-dimension into the different fragments?
A bit confusing... Suffice to say those worlds with 'spirit anchors' should go to the warp and come back, which includes 'phasing'.
Nothing too problematic at the moment...
Kage
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Post by CELS on Jan 6, 2005 8:29:10 GMT -5
Concerning 'fragment worlds'... The idea is that only the Tombworld was originally swept off by the Old One artefacts. This is because A) Why would they want to take ten other worlds with them? and B) It must be easier to just target a single system, rather than a sphere with a 10 parsec diameter, or whatever. Concerning the rifts... If warp rifts only start appearing when the fragmentation begins (post-Fall), then you wouldn't have star systems exploding back into reality. Rather, they'd be slowly dragged into the warp. And when you take a chunk of space out of the matterium and into the warp, doesn't it make sense that there is some kind of hole left behind? Or would it just be empty space? Then again, having the Aoidean homeworld in the matterium, to be dragged into the warp in its apocalypse, would explain how the Hosok spread to distant worlds and set up their spirit anchors. On spirit anchors... These would be found lots of places, but one of the most important ideas (I think) is that Hosok appear on worlds colonised by humans. Obviously, humans wouldn't colonise a world that phases in and out of the warp. On Aoide... As I suggested it, Aoide would be a world in the matterium that was pulled into the warp-fragment as the warp rift expanded. Hard to explain with an analogy, but imagine that the tombworld is a house and that the Old Ones wanted to get rid of it by creating a cyclone. Eventually, the cyclone got out of control (highly experimental technology) and got bigger and started swallowing up other houses as well. One of these was Aoide. When the Fall came, the cyclone almost blew out. It diminished, and a lot of the houses caught by the cyclone now dropped to the ground, and crashed. Aoide was not dropped to the ground, but rather thrown far into high heavens (the warp  ) A damned weak analogy, but there's no need to point that out 
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Post by Destecado on Jan 6, 2005 16:57:41 GMT -5
Concerning the rifts... If warp rifts only start appearing when the fragmentation begins (post-Fall), then you wouldn't have star systems exploding back into reality. Rather, they'd be slowly dragged into the warp. I agree, if the proto-reality in which the Necron tomb world had existed did not fragment until the time of the Fall, then it would have been stable and there would have been no movement of systems in or out of it. It all depends on how the removal of the pice of reality was accomplished by the old ones. Did they just tear a pice of the matterium out or was it more of a surgical removal...kind of like a bowel resectioning, where a portion of the intestin is removed, but the remainder is swen back together. It leaves a smaller intestine in overall length, but as a cohesive whole. I see the latter occuring, they removed the system, but were able to do it in such a manner as to minimize its impact on the matterium. Of course, there could still be a warp rift or a warp distortion near the area where the system use to be...sort of like scar tissue where the incision occured. The prophesized destruction of the Aoidean homeworld may have occured at some time after the Fall. It would have taken some time for the shockwave to reach Anargo, destabilize the proto-dimension causing it to fall apart and have "fragments" of the proto-dimension impact back into the matterium. The force of such impact may have opened up a warp rift close enough to Aiode, that it was sucked into the warp and lost. The society that was left behind was what evolved into the Hosok. Actually, a thought did occure to me...rather than having Aoide sucked into the warp in one piece, what if instead it was first destroyed by the warp rift. The Aoideans that were able to transcend rebuilt it from the debris within the warp. I was toying with an idea of perhaps having the power of the Aoides...who would eventually become Hosok be diminished with the loss of Aoide. It was not only their planet that theylost, but also their home star. This ideas is tied to the concept I had posted in the Hosok thread about their belief that they were the descendants of stars and through stars, the sacred fire of creation. Since they were "born" of the star which Aoide circled, it was seen as their anscestor. Its death would have a sever impact on the culture....this is still a half formed idea in my head. I'll try to post more as I work out the details, but we need to come up with a reasoning behind the concept of the spirit andchor...beyond what we have already discussed. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 6, 2005 22:43:11 GMT -5
Hmmn... The post obviously wasn't as clear as I thought it was.
The Original 'Target'
This was a Tombworld system, pure and simple. It was only after the Fall and the 'fragmentation' that it might have taken up other systems.
Worlds In and Out of the Warp
It's a phrasing thing. Worlds can 'explode' in and out of the warp following the Fall, not before. That's "history", not conceptual. And there need not be anything gradual about it.
What is Left
The original premise is that the worlds are not actually totally 'removed'. That was the problem and the reason that you have the interaction of the warp with the fragments.
Spirit Anchors and Human Worlds
Given that the majority of these are going to lie in the Sargassos Gulf...
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Post by Destecado on Jan 7, 2005 10:35:03 GMT -5
Spirit Anchors and Human WorldsGiven that the majority of these are going to lie in the Sargassos Gulf... I'm not sure what you meant by this. Are you saying that the Hosok worlds would lie within the Sargasso Gulf or Sargassos Subsector? Is there no human habitation within the heart of the Sector, from prior to the Fall of the Eldar? So are we also saying that the Hosok culture did not emerge till after the Fall of the Eldar? What are the implications of this? Did they have contact with humans before they died as a culture? What was the cause of the Hosok's extinction? |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 7, 2005 16:36:09 GMT -5
Was only saying that I thought the premise was that they were contained for the most part within the Sargassos Gulf. That was all. If they're outside of it was well, then fine. I just wasn't overtly keen on yet another race with yet another empire, etc. etc.
It really doesn't make that much difference from what I've read.
One also has to remember that the summary of questions does not necessarily include the explanation of previous discussion.
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Post by Destecado on Jan 7, 2005 17:31:32 GMT -5
Was only saying that I thought the premise was that they were contained for the most part within the Sargassos Gulf. That was all. If they're outside of it was well, then fine. I just wasn't overtly keen on yet another race with yet another empire, etc. etc. Since the culture is now dead, they would have very little impact upon the Anargo Sector of the present. The Hosok were not meant to be a culture that existed within the Sargassos Gulf or Sargassos Subsector. Aoide and the worlds that the Aoideans inhabited would be near the center of the Sector. It could be that these worlds lay uninhabited or only sparsely inhabited at this time. As the time line of the Sector progresses and people delve into these worlds, their haunted nature might come out. Some of the worlds may border on the edge of the gulf (towards the center of the Sector, but I do not see any within the Sargassos Subsector propper. Is this in reference to when the Hosok divergance from the Aoideans occured? this question was really pointed more towards CELS, but I am interested what your thoughts on the divergance of the cultures would be....as well as what your thoughts would be on any contact with humans during the age of strife or after. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 7, 2005 23:34:47 GMT -5
So how many worlds are we talking about? It would be nice if we didn't have yet another extensive former empire...  |
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Post by CELS on Jan 8, 2005 7:29:05 GMT -5
It all depends on how the removal of the pice of reality was accomplished by the old ones. Did they just tear a pice of the matterium out or was it more of a surgical removal...kind of like a bowel resectioning, where a portion of the intestin is removed, but the remainder is swen back together. It leaves a smaller intestine in overall length, but as a cohesive whole. That would work, although my brain has difficulty in understanding how you could just carve a chunk out of the universe, and it would only leave a small 'scar', since that means that the universe would have to be infinite. Or something. *Head explodes* Anyway, I'm fine with both a large warp rift or a very small and thin one. I think it would happen more or less at the same time. Time does not pass normally in the warp. By suggesting that the Fall created a tidalwave that moved out from the Eye of Terror like a water ring, you are making great assumptions about the topography of the warp, and its relative position to the matterium. That works for me. Hmm, I don't know. I don't want them to be too powerful, even in the warp. How does other people feel about this? Kage? Well, I don't feel that we do, nor do I have any immediate ideas as to what that might be, but I'm all ears. As for having the power of the Hosok diminish because of the loss of the Aoide star... did you only mean from a cultural / religious point of view? So are we also saying that the Hosok culture did not emerge till after the Fall of the Eldar? What are the implications of this? Did they have contact with humans before they died as a culture? What was the cause of the Hosok's extinction? War? You may think it cliché, but sooner or later, most races in 40k are destroyed by war. Orks, Eldar, or Spirians, who are also extinct. We could even have civil war, for a change. So how many worlds are we talking about? It would be nice if we didn't have yet another extensive former empire... It would also be nice if you could supply us with a suggestion, along with your restriction I don't know. Maybe 3-5 worlds? If these worlds are going to be colonised by humans, then we have the choice of making them GAoT remnants near the Heart of Anargo, or Imperial worlds, in one of the subsectors. Or are there Imperial worlds in wildspace? |
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 8, 2005 12:18:21 GMT -5
That would work, although my brain has difficulty in understanding how you could just carve a chunk out of the universe... And this is where one sees the problem that if not every little detail is stated, no matter how annoying it can be, needs to be stated. I thought that it was relatively 'clear' that a section of the universe would be separated yet still remain connected? Ah well, whatever. Anyway, I'm fine with both a large warp rift or a very small and thin one. Was not the whole point of the 'rifts' that upon the fracturing of the proto-dimension the 'rift' (the point of connection between the proto-dimension and the material universe) was similarly fractured, at least in the dimensions of the material universe. Thus while you might have spatially, or even spatiotemporally, disparate rifts they are ultimately contiguous with each other? But that this 'fragmentation' away from the focus destabilises the proto-dimension... By suggesting that the Fall created a tidalwave that moved out from the Eye of Terror like a water ring, you are making great assumptions about the topography of the warp, and its relative position to the matterium. There are some yokes - and many jokes - that GW saddle us with. It would appear that the 'wave theory' for the Fall is given as much credence as not. Down the drain hole? Of course, it's not actually gone... or is it? Wonder what that would have done ot the rest of the system... Hmm, I don't know. I don't want them to be too powerful, even in the warp. How does other people feel about this? Kage? Nope, I don't like it. Why not just live in the fragments ala Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within... It's not as if they're going to need physical bodies. It would also be nice if you could supply us with a suggestion, along with your restriction Who said I was restricting? One could just point out that as soon as an alien race is created, an empire is normally appended. Heck, just for kicks and giggles I might go back to the eldar and create a whole network of colony worlds and a might military empire of the Dragon Clan... Watch out Imperium! I don't know. Maybe 3-5 worlds? Whatever you do, make sure that the empire is not going to rise out of the depths of dark death! I would prefer that we don't have empire upon empire... Former Old One Empire. Former Necron Empire. Former Eldar Empire. Former Mezzan Empire. Current Imperium, Atlantean Empire, etc., etc. You mentioned that a 'war', above, was somewhat cliched... Yet so is the continual bringing up of empires! Yes, I know that the fall of an empire is going to cause a power vacuum, and I'm fine with it... Just lets not over play the same card. So, again, keep the numbers down and don't have people necessarily living in the indestructible remnanets of a former empire, etc. I'm not saying that you were going to do this, but there we go. And while I think about it, what were these questions that were so important that I answer? It seems that, for the most part, everything is pretty much covered even if there is a slight bit of drift away from some of the original concepts. (Not necessarily bad...) ...we have the choice of making them GAoT remnants near the Heart of Anargo, or Imperial worlds, in one of the subsectors. Or are there Imperial worlds in wildspace? One of the reasons that I mentioned the Sargassos Gulf, or at least the edges of it... |
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Post by CELS on Jan 8, 2005 13:12:31 GMT -5
And this is where one sees the problem that if not every little detail is stated, no matter how annoying it can be, needs to be stated. I thought that it was relatively 'clear' that a section of the universe would be separated yet still remain connected? Ah well, whatever. It's quite possible that you have stated it, but that I haven't read it, or can't remember it. Keep in mind that I only skimmed the former thread dealing with the Heart of Anargo. Could you elaborate though, so I don't have to search through all the related posts on the forum? How can it be seperated yet still remain connected? I thought this was basically like taking a glass of water out of a lake and holding it in the air. |
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