Massil

Hi Tynesh! Thanks for doing some spadework on Massil. I'm looking forward to seeing the planetary stats, but I just wanted to clarify some things you wanted to include about the world's role in Castellan.

(Advance note: yes, I know I'm about to make some points that I don't think I've made before and that you couldn't have been expected to know about. This isn't a slapdown or anything, and I hope you don't take it as such, I'm just giving some clarification.)

I'd like us to steer clear of any one world becoming the "most vital world" or "the lynchpin of Castellan's defences"; even "crucial staging point" is pushing it a little. These tend to assume Castellan is a collection of allied but essentially unconnected worlds, which go about their own business most of the time and tend to face ork attacks largely with their own resources.

The way I'd like to build up the sub, though, is as a lot more unified. A high degree of cohesion and organisation is unusual in a lot of Imperial sectors, with worlds developing along much more individual lines - but the Castellan sub is not operating in usual circumstances. The Lord Militant Protector has organised the militarised zone (which is most of the sub) so that each world is part of an effective defensive line and war machine, with roles to play in launching attacks and providing defences. If there were any worlds which weren't able to withstand invasions then the military command would do whatever it took to make sure they could. Likewise, even if Massil is the most common staging point for counter-invasions (which I have no problem with), then if Massil is the first planet to fall to the new Waaagh! then where do you launch your counter-invasion from if you stop it there but Massil is trashed?

If you want to make Massil a front-line planet but still prominent in the sub's military infrastructure, I can think of a few ways. Some possibilities:

• as one of the sub's most prosperous worlds pre-invasion, Massil remains a symbolic centre of Imperial power and its military organisation and culture are still looked up to (although let's not overplay this, let's allow the other worlds' militaries some individuality);
  
• Massil is best able of all the frontier worlds to handle large transient populations, so it tends to be the first place where new forces from deeper inside Anargo arrive before they move on to their actual garrison assignments at other frontier worlds, making it a logistical and population hub; or
  
• Massil has a significance to the war effort beyond the strictly military, such as the station for a cell of Ordo Xenos Inquisitors, the temple of a Magos (Xeno)Biologis who supplies knowledge to the military command in return for opportunities to study (I'm keen to have this in Castellan somewhere, so why not here?), or something similar.
  

Obviously I'd rather you didn't use all of these, at least not without watering them down a little, but you get the idea. Let me know if you'd like to kick any of these around in any more detail.

Ooooh, this looks promising! Looking forward to the "Std Rep" ;D

I think Sikkukkut has some good points though, and that the subsector will become much more interesting if the Castellan subsector if it is dependant on keeping a heavily defended line against the ork threat, instead of one or two fortress worlds that form the tip of a defense pyramid.
It also makes more sense.

However... I think the idea of an Ordo Xenos cell or a Magos Xenos Biologis on this planet is cool, but I don't see these having a really big impact on the strategic value of Massil, unless you think of a special reason, like special resources in their possession (like artifacts), but I'm kinda skeptic about that.

The idea that Massil is especially able to handle large transient population makes sense though, since it has large agricultural regions, which would be pretty unique for for a fortress-world, I imagine.
If we're operating with the concept of Astronomican beacons, the world could still have beacons from when it was a subsector capitol, making it a good rally point....
Of course, this implies that beacons are something other than a choir of astropaths, or whatever...

But, since when do Orks use efficient military tactics?

"Da Big Boss iz ded krafty!"

hmmm indeed, an interesting thought, I better read the post again because I'm not too sure what I am talking about and I am getting confused

<Kage goes beetroot red at mention of 'genetic memory'... >

Kage

Funny, I thought this thread was started to discuss Massil Well, as long as you're all spamming, I might as well join the fray.

Humans also have genetic memory, though that is a rather bad term for it. Humans instinctively fear spiders and snakes, for example. A child doesn't need to be bitten by a snake in order to know it's bad business. This is not because we are born with a few facts about snakes, such as their capacities, their different shapes and sizes, but because we instinctively fear all things that slither like a snake.*

In the same fashion as humans are born with an aptitude for survival in the wild (even if it's not as good as that of animals), the orks have an aptitude for survival in combat. This is why orks don't have boot camps.

If humans can be born with certain "knowledge" of the world, however insignificant or small, this suggests that the genes are capable of storing similar data, and perhaps even more complex stuff.

I'm not saying that the genetic memory of orks is a realistic possibility, I'm just saying that it's not among the most unrealistic things in 40k, which I'm sure you'll agree with

I agree that the whole Lictor, Kroot and Space Marine memory-absorbing stuff is a load of crap though



* I've read this in my psychology books. God knows psychology books aren't always right, but at least I'm not making it up

You don't agree with it? Well, it wasn't my personal opinion, it was what I've read in psychology books. Unless you can point to scientific studies that show that humans' fear of spiders and snakes are taught by "society and teaching", I think I'll stick with what psychologists from around the world have found

Specifically, scientists have found that humans do not instinctively fear the snakes by their colour, shape or sound, but by the way they move. They have come to this conclusion because children do not seem to fear snakes or spiders when simply presented in pictures. When they see movies that show the snakes slithering across land, the children are frightened however.

And obviously, they use very young children which have not been taught about snakes, since the experiments would have very low reliability on grown-ups or children who have read the bible, for example.

I'm sorry, I can't remember the name of the psychologists who did the experiments, and I can't be bothered looking for the names. Here is another study though, which has found the same results in a different manner. I can't vouch for the credibility of this study, but there you go
For those of you who can't be bothered reading the article, here's a quote for ya.
"Certainly there are certain stimuli that are pre-wired in the brain because they have been perennially dangerous to our ancestors,"


Oh, and btw, don't roll your eyes at Steve 'LOOK at this beeeaautiful specimen' Irwin!!! I won't have that on this forum

Ork feral tribes do not lack weapons because they haven't been trained properly, but because many orks are very distrusting of technology, preferring simple spears and axes. Shooting is considered unorky by many orks anyways, particularly by Goffs.
Also, there are ork infestations in places where there is little access to weapons, such as Imperial worlds, which is why the ork tribes in these places are usually feral.