|
Post by CELS on Nov 20, 2004 5:09:04 GMT -5
Right. It's time I followed the standard procedures of world building myself and discussed my initial concept with everyone ;D Nova Cerkes (forget about the name, you freaks! ) is an ice world with a hydrosphere of 100%, meaning that if it was a bit warmer, there would be water everywhere. But it isn't, so there isn't. It's just ice. Endless plains of ice, going kilometers into the surface of the planet. Under all this ice, humans began building mining installations, which eventually grew into cities, which eventually became hives. So now you have a proto-hiveworld with only minimal structures on the surface of the ice as proof of human life. In the middle of nowhere, huge chimneys rise out of the ice, puking exhaust and smoke into the atmosphere. I was thinking that in order to sustain itself, the world has great heated pools of liquid water near the hives, where fish and plants are grown. Whether these pools would be heated by the planet's core or by the hives themselves, I don't know. So. What do you think? Plausible? Silly? Cool?
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Nov 20, 2004 5:25:49 GMT -5
;D I never said a word, must be a guilty consciense You will probably find that on a world this big you will still have a large internal heat source and so have great under-ice oceans, so food and heat should not be a problem for you, you would also be burrowing into the actual rock of the planet as the water that was covering it will have turned to ice, so all in all its a very reasonable and scientifically sound concept. I like the chimney idea, I hope they are vast pollutant encrusted monoliths to mans unstoppable power, not puny little things. They would be a good place for some form of bacterial life to inhabit due to the warmth. And its not like it would be the only ice world out there, Proculus, Elina, Meksum, frost bringer homeworld to name but a few.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Nov 20, 2004 5:38:04 GMT -5
Well, I'm glad it is scientifically sound And yes, the chimneys will indeed be awesome They'll need to be tall, so that they don't melt the ice around them, and they need to be wide, since they're transporting all the exhaust from a whole hive. There also needs to be some kind of huge air-ventilation shafts, and great elevators from the surface to the hives. I'll need to check out Meksum- if that is an ice world similar to Nova Cerkes, then I may have to rethink the idea. I don't want to step on any toes! Fortunately, it's not really similar to Elinas, Proculus or the Frostbringer homeworld. Edit: Turns out that large parts of Meksum have liquid oceans most of the year, so I should be good. My world is original, wee ;D
|
|
|
Post by Destecado on Nov 22, 2004 11:53:28 GMT -5
The concept is plausible...the problem is working out exactly how to go about making this a "reality". Have you given any thought to vulcanism or techtonic instability on the planet? I would also need to know if the world is going to fall within the habitable zone of the star it orbits and the type of star.
It may be interesting to have a world with a thin atmosphere, but which lies outside of the habitable zone of the star. The Jovian moon of Europa is a good example of such an enviroment.
In 1995 Astronomers discovered a very weak atmosphere of molecular oxygen in Europa. Europa's oxygen is strongly believed to be generated by non-biological processes (unlike on Earth where living organisms create and replenish twenty-one percent of the oxygen in the atmosphere).
Because the icy surface of Europa is exposed to sunlight and is impacted by dust and charged particles trapped within Jupiter's intense magnetic field, the surface ice produces and releases water vapors as well as gaseous fragments of water molecules. After the gas molecules are produced, they undergo a series of chemical reactions, ultimately forming molecular hydrogen and oxygen. The lightweight hydrogen gas escapes into space, while the heavier oxygen moleculesaccumulate to form an atmosphere.
Tidal forces would also play a major role in the survivability of cities below the ice pack. In Europa's case, the most striking feature on its surface, is a series of dark cracks crisscrossing the entire surface of the globe are beleived to be a result of the competing magnetic pull of Jupiter and the neighboring moons.
If the magnetic pulls cause tidal flexing to exist in the ice, then the heat generated from the expansion and contraction of the ice has the potential to melt some of the icy crust, allowing liquid to flow beneath. As this flexing occurs beneath the ice, cracks in the ice form.
When the flexing is great enough, geysers and ice volcanoes would erupt, exposing the darker liquid materials underneath and causing the dark bands to appear on the surface.
It is necessary to judge the effects of having a hive world underneath the ice will do to the world over the centuries. If you are talking about having large "smoke stacks reaching up to the surface, you have the potential of releasing vast quatities of grean house gasses into the atmophere.
The green house effect will increase the mean temperature of the planet. This may lead to drastic shifts in the ice sheet covering the surface. It may actually cause it to crack and shift randomly....which opens up another factor that must be accounted for.
We must not only factor in geologic activity for the planet, but the effects of shifting ice on the structures that will reach the surface. Ice flows can crash into eachother with great force, they have also been known to crush the hulls of ice bound ships like egg shells.
Another question is how deep do you feel these ice and underlying liquid ocean will be? Any structures built will need to take the depth into consideration. Placing or securing any type of structure to the ice pack would be very dangerous....although, there might be a way. Let me give this issue a liilte more cosideration....answers to the above questions will also help to narrow down the possibilities.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Nov 22, 2004 14:16:25 GMT -5
The concept is plausible...the problem is working out exactly how to go about making this a "reality". Have you given any thought to vulcanism or techtonic instability on the planet? Yeah, I have. Originally, I figured that there would be little or no tectonic instability on the planet, but then I realised the planet's surface would probably be dead flat, with it being a frozen water world and all. Naturally, there is little need for 14 meter tall Knights on a world that is dead flat. So then I thought that it would be cool if there was tectonic activity which pushed the ice up into great mountains and canyons here and there. In this terrain, it would be difficult for vehicles with wheels or tracks to maneuvre. At the moment, it's within the habitable zone, but if that means that the world isn't cold enough, then I'll have to prod further away from the sun. Begging your parden, but... why would this be interesting? This sounds interesting, but I don't want the ice to move so much that every other day, the surface elevators of the hives are ripped in two as the ice moves. Perhaps there is a way to have regions where the ice moves a lot, and regions where the ice does not move so much. Or perhaps I have to reconsider the idea of elevators and exhaust chimneys. Maybe the people on the surface have to drill new passages to the hives below every once in a while? Cool Indeed. The atmosphere of the planet I'm looking at already has a pollutant taint, so perhaps we can assume that millennia ago, the world was even colder. Perhaps the landscape has become much more dangerous over the millennia, and the ice has started moving more and more. The data Dazo has generated for me shows that the temperature around the equator is -41 degrees on a warm summerday. On a cold winter night, the temperature on the poles drops to -143. I don't want this world to have an impending doom, like my other Knight world. I would prefer it if the frozen oceans wouldn't melt for another two thousand years or so. Thanks for your help, Destecado.
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Nov 22, 2004 15:36:35 GMT -5
Well I did say that some of the people would live in the bedrock of the world, its not just a titanic glob of frozen water. It would be unstable over those ares of deep ocean, where its still liquid and warm, but where it lies directly on land the ice should be fine, it would be here you would have your chimneys and elevators. These land dwellings would link not with ice colonies but sea colonies beneath the ice, there by eliminating the problem of having to deal with migrating ice.
And stop worrying about temperature, if anything it can only get colder, we are talking about a mid range red dwarf, they have no habitable zones only outer zones so this planet is going to stay cold come hell or high water.
|
|
|
Post by Destecado on Nov 22, 2004 15:55:58 GMT -5
Yeah, I have. Originally, I figured that there would be little or no tectonic instability on the planet, but then I realised the planet's surface would probably be dead flat, with it being a frozen water world and all. Naturally, there is little need for 14 meter tall Knights on a world that is dead flat. If you made the planet perhaps a satellite of a gas giant, the tidal forces could creat peaks and mountains of ice as ice sheets crash into eachother and are forced up...Still the stability issue is there. I don't think I'd want to be riding around on a world like that in a large walker that weighs several dozen tons. So then I thought that it would be cool if there was tectonic activity which pushed the ice up into great mountains and canyons here and there. In this terrain, it would be difficult for vehicles with wheels or tracks to maneuvre. I'm still not sole on the use of a Walker on such a highly unstable world. At the moment, it's within the habitable zone, but if that means that the world isn't cold enough, then I'll have to prod further away from the sun. Outside Habitable Zone]/b] Begging your parden, but... why would this be interesting? I though it would make for one of the ironies of this world. like the old saying, "water water everywhere and not a drop to drink" The irony is the fact that there is plenty of oxygen in the atmosphere to support life, but the temperatures are just too cold for a human to breath it (their lungs would freeze). It could be that the original inhabitants laid claim to this world based on a faulty survey that displayed the temperature gradients incorrectly. The atmosphere as reported is conducive to life, but the temperatures is not. It could be that the probe landed near one of the steam gyesers and this is why the temperature gradient was thrown off. whatever the case, the world that the colonists found when they arrived was far different from what they had originally expected. Still, they made the best of a bad situation and were able to colonize. This sounds interesting, but I don't want the ice to move so much that every other day, the surface elevators of the hives are ripped in two as the ice moves. There are several ways to combat this. The simplest would be to have a platforms at the enerance wyas that keep the "pilot holes" open. If the ice encroaches past a certain point, heavy lasers are used to keep it back. Another way might be to have telescoping access tunnels and smoke stacks. When the ice is flowing fast, the access ways and smoke stacks could be retracted as the movement of the ice slows, they could punch through to the surface again, much as sumarines that come up under the polar ice pack do. Perhaps there is a way to have regions where the ice moves a lot, and regions where the ice does not move so much. Or perhaps I have to reconsider the idea of elevators and exhaust chimneys. Maybe the people on the surface have to drill new passages to the hives below every once in a while? If the planet is tidally locked, the "dark" side might be more stable with regards to ice flows. Since most of the habitations are going to be at the bottom of the ocean (where sunlight rarely penetrates), it wouldn't really matter if there was a sunrise or not. Indeed. The atmosphere of the planet I'm looking at already has a pollutant taint, so perhaps we can assume that millennia ago, the world was even colder. Perhaps the landscape has become much more dangerous over the millennia, and the ice has started moving more and more. That is definitely a possibility. I don't want this world to have an impending doom, like my other Knight world. I would prefer it if the frozen oceans wouldn't melt for another two thousand years or so. Sounds reasonable, Also this might have been the original inhabitants design. They knew that they could not afford to terraform the entire world. the cost for such technologies was not only high, but also maybe inaccessable or non-existant. the outgassing of greenhouses gasses would in the long run help to change the temperature as would albdo terraforming. This is changing the reflectivity of a planets surface in order to absorb more of the rays of the sun. An increase in the rate of absorbtion will increase the temperature of the planet.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Nov 23, 2004 7:01:24 GMT -5
After considerable thought, I've decided to scrap the concept for Knight World Nova Cerkes. There was simply no way to justify the use of heavy Knight walkers. If I increased stability, the world would be flat, and the optimal unit would be a tank. If I decreased stability, the world would be cracked and dangerous, and the optimal unit would be hovercraft and aircraft.
I'm going to set up UWP intended to be a Knight World as a mining world instead, and look for a new world for Nova Cerkes.
Stay tuned.
|
|
|
Post by Sojourner on Dec 15, 2004 4:56:59 GMT -5
*Coughs* sounds a bit like Trireme, funnily enough...
But you're right, it wasn't such a good concept.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Dec 15, 2004 5:09:47 GMT -5
First of all, I beg you to check out the finished article in the Archaios forum Second of all, I'm sorry if I stepped on any toes, but I don't recall reading anything at all about what Trireme was like, because it's been so long...
|
|