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Post by Destecado on Oct 7, 2004 10:36:58 GMT -5
Its a good idea so you might want to keep it for your own world. Mind you I can form a rather picturesque view of the mountains poking out of the misty haze of the swamp . Please feel free to use it. I have too many other projects that I am working on and would hate to see the idea go to waste. I have come up with the idea that some of the hotter areas might also contain pockets of highly flamible gasses that tend to go off randomly, forcing the inhabitance to move around these areas carefully. However that might make the area too dangrous. I'm not sure if it would cause the inhabitants to move. Most would know better that to stay away from these gas pockets. They might even have found a way to collect this gas for heating or cooking. Swamp gas does burn....I guess if it was trapped, it might even explode. Again another excellent idea. But it might be cruel on the inhabitance to have both the root and the rot spoiling their lives. I don't think it would be too cruel....its just another hazard they would have to overcome. It would only really be prevalent in the low lands. The only time that it would effect the mountain communities is when the fungal blooms pushed it further up into the atmosphere. Perhaps the spore is somesort of very viscus material that sticks to everything instead. It can also form into patches deeper in the swamps that form 'sinking sand' like areas. Having the rot be akin to skum that forms on top of a pond would be fine. It could be the spores that have settled out of the air and accumulated on the surface of the swamp. Perhaps they absorb water and become like a spongy mass. This mass block sunlight from reaching the underwater plants of the swamp, which kills them. The plants quickly rot and give off methane or other gasses that add to the swamp gas. Really? I am intreged. Would the salt be valuble commidity on the planet. Salt is highly valuable. It was a major commodity of the ancient world. Of course be used as a seasoning for less palatable nutrients (your example of the unpalatable nutrient bars), but that barely scratches the surface of its uses and importance. Common salt (Sodium Chloride) is a critical part of a nutritionally balanced diet. Most plants provide insufficient sodium for animal feeding and may lack adequate chloride content. This is why hunters use salt licks to attract such animals as deer who, as vegetarians, need to supplement their salt intake. Even though the body only contains about 0.2% sodium, it is essential for life and is highly regulated. About half of the sodium in the body is in the soft tissues of the body; the other half in bones. Sodium makes up about 93% of the basic mineral elements in the blood serum and is the chief cation (ion in an electrolyzed solution that migrates to the cathode) regulating blood pH. The ability of muscles to contract is dependent on proper sodium concentrations. Sodium also plays major roles in nerve impulse transmission, the rhythmic maintenance of heart action and efficient absorption of amino acids and monosaccharides from the small intestine. Chloride (the other mineral in salt) is also essential for life. Chloride is the primary anion (ion in an electrolyzed solution that migrates to the anode) in blood, and represents about two thirds of its acidic ions. The chloride shift (movement of chloride in and out of the red blood cells) is essential in maintaining the acid-base balance of the blood. Chloride is also a necessary part of the hydrochloric acid produced by the stomach which is required to digest most food. I'll bet their fed up of it really. Their is no other crop on the planet or fish. Meal times would get rather bland. Perhaps ironically they have to inport other foodstuff onto the planet in order to get verity. I don't think that it should be the only type of crop on the entire planet. Granted it may be the most abundant, but a little variety is necessary. Since you say that you were originally going to have it related to the potato, lets use that as an example. One of the reasons that the Irish Potato famine hit the country so hard was because land owners had turned over most of their land to cultivation of potatos to the exclusion of all other crops. When the potato blight hit, they had no other crop to fall back on. Tens of thousands of people starved to death. It was also one of the main drives that cause many Irish to emmigrate to America. It would therefore only make good sense to vary the crop. I was thinking of a way to provide good cultivation ground above the area of the mist. Terrace farming might be used on the planet. Terrace farming consists of building a series of steps out of the side of the mountain. The Inca civilization was located high in the Andes Mountains where conventional farming was not feasible. they were able to sustain a large population by implementing terrace farming. The terrace farming techniques are also used in Japan (even today) where land is a prescious comodity. It may be that the communities above the mist line trade theses various crops with those that live within the mist (swamp zone). They may also use it to trade for salt. One other thought, about the crop beaing similar to the potato. There are several varieties of tubers that are water plants that are in the same family as the potato. These might fluorish in the swamp. The one problem is that like potatos, these are a starch. While high in carbohydrates, they lack the nutrients found in green leafy vegetables (again proof that other crops are needed). The cultivation and growth of green leafy vegetables might be more difficult below the mist due to the bacterial agens that might attack the plants as they grow. The inhabitants of the mist zone might be able to grow some in special green houses, but would need to suppliment these with those purchased from the towns above the mist zone. Less civilized communities might raid the villages above the mist zone to take the crop. this will of course require the villages to have defenders, which give you the beginnings of those that culd serve in an Imperial Guard regiment.
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Post by RascalLeader on Oct 8, 2004 20:32:06 GMT -5
Thanks ;D
I think their would be some areas more suseptable to this condtion then others, however some patches are near vital travel routes. They would have to move around it dispite the inconvence.
I had in mind that some might explode if the presure got high enoght. I am going to write it into the profile that the inhabitance learn from an early age to notice for signes of this.
::)The primary food sorce eats away at their cites, Swamp gas patches that blcok their path, corrosive mist and now sticky fungus that kills the other native life. Add to that a represive inforced feudal system and very low wages for the root pickers and it gets cruel. I feel like some vengeful god having fun at their expense. Ah well, never mind....
And toxic to humans at high enoght levels I seem to remeber...
I get it, it was a stupid thing to make such a wide sweeping statment that this was the only crop on the planet. They will proberly have several other different ones but alot of them don't grow very well. I know I am going to make it rather an unbalanced place but they are unfortunatly over relient on the root, for better or for worse.
Its also important to keep in mind a famin of the crop is unlikly to happen; its spread right across the planet. If they ever got some sort of infection they could burn thousands of kilometers of land and it would not make a dent in the production cycle. Similary at the speed the crop grows even if in one cycle somesort of natural disater happened only a few weeks later they would have the next lot comming to cultivation.
Even after saying that, I am going to add a few more plants, and dare I say it..even a few animals to the mix. I want to limit diversity but not excessivly.
I was going to use the step idea for the larger settlements on the planet. However its very likly that some of the smaller ones use the space it makes for different crops instead.
They don't need to raid the villages, although in its raw form its extremly bland they can pick it up anywhere.
The Local defence force main concern in revolts by the extermly poor. I am going to have a history where a massive rebellion attempted to take control of the food production from the Barons because off the terrible conditions they were under. It failed and things have gradually gotten worse in some areas where the nobility have claimed villiages for themselves making slaves out of all the people who live their..
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Post by RascalLeader on Nov 15, 2004 19:07:56 GMT -5
I have been off for a fornight because of computer Trouble only to find When I got back that my last post here was lost - AHHHH!!!!!!
I can only just remember what I asked but here goes.
1) I need help with an approiate sector to put this planet in; any suggestions?
2) I was going to add flood planes and Canals into the planet as the main transport system. I assume That I can have both 'proper' swamps and mix these in with areas with patches of very deep 'swampy' water (the Seas are seperate). Would their be any problem with this.
3) I was think of having some of the local defence force being taken into the I-Guard as some sort of swamp/ Guerrilla combat speialists. However I think with all the other swamp worlds out their this idea might have been done to death. However a battlefield where they can be used might be more usful. I have been considering making the planet a bit more interesting by turning parts of it into bases for rebels/Pirates. Any one else?
4) I would like to place a fortress on this planet to protect its main starport. Although the planet is rather backwards I was thinking that if they produce a lot of food for the I-Guard then it is stratigically an important location. However is their any problems with this? and if I do turn the planet into a hide out for more of the fringe scum of the universe would it be appropate at all?
5) I think I have said this before but their is not many plants or animals on the world - however what is the sort minimum for a sustainable ecosystem?
6) Is their any websites about swamps anyone could point me to? I have only basic understanding of them but would like to find out the full range of animals that could possibily live there.
7) I have decided to call the planet - Morton - any objections?
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Post by Dazo on Nov 16, 2004 3:20:35 GMT -5
There all good, but castellan and sargassos have very few worlds at the minute.
None what so ever
No reason why not, there seems to be a great many pirates in anargo so a few more shouldn't make much difference
Again shouldn't be a problem, I would imagine imperial settlements would be rather small due to the nature of the planet so that leaves plenty of room for scum to hide out in
As long as there are plenty of insects I would imagine the plants would be very happy.
I used to know a lad called morton, its not a very, well interesting name, Morton, I keep thinking of that lad, sorry he was just really sad, Its your world though call it whatever you want
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Post by CELS on Nov 16, 2004 7:25:26 GMT -5
I have been off for a fornight because of computer Trouble only to find When I got back that my last post here was lost - AHHHH!!!!!! I know your pain How about the Anargo sector? Oh, you meant sub-sector As Dazo said, any subsector is appropriate, in theory. Unfortunately, I know for a fact that there are no available mainworlds in teh Archaios sector that match your description. Maybe ask Destecado about the Sargassos subsector? It's looking rather empty at the moment, eventhough it's a very interesting setting. Not that I can think of. Take a look at Quetchit in the Meksum subsector. It's a swamp world with a history of rebels. Of course, there's nothing wrong with you having rebels too, but there are other ways to make your planet a bit more interesting. By Pirates, do you mean pirates operating on an interstellar scale? Or just local swamp-pirates? If the first, then I suggest the Sargassos subsector, which has a more 'backwater' feel to it. If the latter, then there's no problem at all. As for the Catachan-like Imperial Guard, I don't think it would be unoriginal for these guys to be experts in swamp warfare. But if you start to work them up too much, making them to be the ultimate rambo universal soldiers, then it's basically a direct rip-off from Catachan. Perhaps find a new twist to it. A mechanised infantry specialising in swamps? The Chimeras are amphibious, aren't they? If not, give them some vehicles that are. Depends on what you mean by fortress, and what you mean by starport. If a fortress is a Ramilies class star fortress, then no way. If a fortress is like a castle on the ground with some heavy orbital macro-lasers, then no problem. The latter would be pretty standard for most Imperial worlds. And yes, this world is important because it produces food (and probably not just for the Imperial Guard), but other worlds are also importent for other reasons. I don't see this world as especially important, compared to cardinal worlds, industrial worlds, hiveworlds,s etc. Why do you not want variety? Swamps have an amazing ability to create new species, I imagine. I hear Google is pretty good. If you can't find anything, ask Destecado. The man has a way of finding information Not at all. It's a beautiful name
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Post by RascalLeader on Nov 16, 2004 19:07:51 GMT -5
Perhaps I'll ask.... Unfortuntly I was thinking of the Former. I have toyed with the idea of having many of the mountain ranges on the planet being able to disrupt E-M signatures so that its a great place to hide. I am not thinking of turning it into a pirate base but it is a good planet to laylow on. You can litrally go out and pick your own supplies and its still a backwater colony dispite the importance of its food supplies. However since I also decided I wanted an 'interal' threat perhaps I should reconsider the idea of swamp pirates. While I not sure about mechanised infantry given the nature of the planet (low Tech level) it has sparked an idea in my head. If I add and Alligator like creature they could use it as a mount. Mobile Guerrilla Infantry with a ride that can bite your head off; I kind of like the ring it has to it. A giant castle built into the biggest mountian on the planet. Not only does it keep all those unsavory charators out but prevents allsorts of Fungus eating away at its structure. The walls are over three hundred meters thick and the landing pads inside are inclosed to keep out any spores blown by the wind. The Hook of the planet is this all dominating root. This kills off many of the competing plants of the planet because its too virulent. Most Animals find it hard to live in the swamps because of the various micro orginisims in it. What I have been sort of keeping back is that I think this world was sort of a failed experiment from the GAoT. It was only ever partly terraformed and they just gave in when all hell broke lose in the AoS. When the Imperium came along all they did was plonk a few colonists here along with a few plants and animals, then leaving alone for a few hundred years. This has meant all spieces apart from humans, insects and reptiles are rare. One that is surpost to fill people with foreboding I consider it more of cemetery like world that makes everyday life seem harsh and cruel. Mabey even a few stone temples left over from the orginal colonists. ;D
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Post by Destecado on Nov 19, 2004 15:35:02 GMT -5
Maybe ask Destecado about the Sargassos subsector? It's looking rather empty at the moment, eventhough it's a very interesting setting. I'll take a look through the UWPs for the Sargassos Subsector. The world definitely sounds like it fits in with the desolate qualities of the subsector. I'm also posting information about the Florida Everglades, to give you an idea of not only how interelated the structures of an ecosystem are, but the wonderous variety that can be found there. The more detail that can be brought out about these worlds, the more they will seem. Many people view the Everglades as one large swamp, but in actuallity it contains many different habitats. Slight changes in elevation (mere inches), water salinity, and soil create entirely different landscapes, each with its own community of plants and animals. Marine/EstuaryFlorida Bay, the largest body of water within Everglades National Park, contains over 800 square miles (2072 square km) of marine bottom, much of which is covered by seagrass. The seagrass shelters fish and shellfish and sustains the food chain that supports all higher vertebrates in the bay. The hard bottom areas are home to corals and sponges. Coastal PrairieLocated between the tidal mud flats of Florida Bay and dry land, the coastal prairie is an arid region of salt-tolerant vegetation periodically flooded by hurricane waves and buffeted by heavy winds. It is characterized by low-growing desert plants that can withstand the harsh conditions. MangrovesMangrove forests are found in the coastal channels and winding rivers around the tip of South Florida. Red mangroves (Rhizophora mangle), identified by their stilt-like roots, and the black (Avicennia germinans) and white mangroves (Laguncularia racemosa) thrive in tidal waters, where freshwater from the Everglades mixes with saltwater. This estuary system is a valuable nursery for shrimp and fish. During the dry months, wading birds congregate here to feed. Many bird species nest in the mangrove trees. Freshwater SloughThe slough is the deeper and faster-flowing center of a broad marshy river. This "fast" flow moves at a leisurely pace of 100 feet (30 meters) per day. Dotted with tree-islands called hammocks or heads, this vast landscape channels life-giving waters from north to south. Everglades National Park contains two distinct sloughs: Shark River Slough, the "river of grass;" and Taylor Slough, a narrow, eastern branch of the "river." There are no surface connections between the two. A series of other sloughs through the Big Cypress Swamp supply freshwater to western Florida Bay and the Ten Thousand Islands. CypressThe cypress tree is a deciduous conifer that can survive in standing water. These trees often form dense clusters called cypress domes in natural water-filled depressions. The trees in the deep soil at the center grow taller than those on the outside. Stunted cypress trees, called dwarf cypress, grow thinly-distributed in poor soil on drier land. Freshwater Marl PrairieBordering the deeper sloughs are large prairies with marl sediments, a calcareous material that settles on the limestone. The marl allows slow seepage of the water but not drainage. Though the sawgrass is not as tall and the water is not as deep, freshwater marl prairies look a lot like freshwater sloughs. Hardwood HammocksHammocks are dense stands of hardwood trees that grow on natural rises of only a few inches in the land. They appear as teardrop-shaped islands shaped by the flow of water in the middle of the slough. Many tropical species such as mahogany, gumbo limbo, and cocoplum grow alongside the more familiar temperate species of live oak, red maple, and hackberry. Because of their slight elevation, hammocks rarely flood. Acids from decaying plants dissolve the limestone around each tree island, creating a natural moat that protects the hammock plants from fire. Shaded from the sun by the tall trees, ferns and airplants thrive in the moisture-laden air inside the hammock. PinelandsThe slash pine is the dominant plant in this dry, rugged terrain that sits on top of a limestone ridge. The pines root in any crack or crevice where soil collects in the jagged bedrock. Fire is an essential condition for survival of the pine community, clearing out the faster-growing hardwoods that would block light to the pine seedlings. Pine bark is multi-layered, so only the outer bark is scorched during fires. The pinelands are the most diverse habitat in the Everglades, consisting of slash pine forest, an understory of saw palmettos, and over 200 varieties of tropical plants. This is but a glimpse of the variety of flora that can exist in a small area. It only begins to touch on the flora that can be found there. I hope it helps you better define the swampy equitorial regions of Morton.
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Post by Destecado on Nov 19, 2004 15:55:02 GMT -5
I've gone through all of the systems in the Sargassos Subsector and none of them seem to be a good fit for Morton...except for perhaps this one...
27,43,49 - O-V Stellar Coordinates: 27 (x) 43 (y) 49 (z) Star Type: Blue Dwarf (Main Sequence Star)
Granted the blue dwarf does not have any planets of its own, but in extended system generation it could perhaps wind up being the companion to another star (binary star system). The other star could have a world matching the parameters of Morton.
Any thoughts?
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Post by RascalLeader on Nov 19, 2004 17:44:10 GMT -5
Its perhaps unfortunate timing - I've already gone to Zholud to put it in the Meksum subsector and been accepted. I looked at Sargassos, and frankly every other subsector(took a few good hours Of my Life), but it came down to two UWPs (both in that subsector). I had to make the choice I did otherwise I would have to radically change my concept. Shame Really; Sargassos is a really good setting. On the upside Meksum means that my planet is near to several Hive and Mining worlds, so the are going to need the trade comming from Morton. However perhaps after I finsh it I'll come back to the Cursed Subesector; I already have some ideas about a twisted forrest world.
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Post by Dazo on Nov 20, 2004 4:52:05 GMT -5
The thing about blue giants is they kill every thing destecado, the UV radion would be so extreme it would kill the plants, so it wouldn't be much of a swamp world, the best range for green planets are star classes F, G an K. And I was told its not allowed to fabricate nice stars and planets by tacking on a companion star. And even if it was a far companion which give the gravity of these things would be unlikely, it would still be dangerously close to the blue giant. When those babys sneeze you don't catch a cold you get virus bombed Ah welcome to meksum, the climate is mild, the seas blue and the enemies of mankind far away So which UWP did you choose by the way, and if you don't have H&E i'm always happy to help out with that side of things And are you dead set on Morton being the name, what about Mortius, or Morven or Cenotaph (thats a graveyardy sounding word)
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Post by Destecado on Nov 20, 2004 9:23:46 GMT -5
Its perhaps unfortunate timing - I've already gone to Zholud to put it in the Meksum subsector and been accepted. No problem. There really just wasn't a system that matched what you were looking for in Sargassos. I'd rather see the planet and system done well in another sub-sector than trying to shoe horn it into a system where the concept would suffer. BTW, there was a recent chapter approved article (I can't remember in which white dwarf, but I'm trying to track it down) that was all about units fighting in swamp conditions. It had special rules as well as a couple of special doctrines for IG swamp fighters. Your units could have names like Morton's Swamp Rats or maybe the Dirty Dogs, for a specailized swamp fighting unit. Amored units (such as amphibios Chimeras) could be called the Land Gators or just Gators...(the lay low in the mud and swamp and then strike out with little warning...much like gater do around watering holes).
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Post by RascalLeader on Nov 21, 2004 19:28:13 GMT -5
;D Compared to the other planets in the sector Mortom looks as if Its going to be the armpit of the region. 55,48,49 - K-V - A65A666-B S,N Ag Wa 511 Im 665 Don't worry I got it already. The only work I have got to do is putting all this into a readable format. (Peice of cake ) Sorry my fault; It should be Mortom (Used to be Mortomb) but If no one else really likes it Morven actully sounds much better. If I can use it? My Thoughts exacally - I was getting to the point where I was worried I was going to have to scrap the idea because their were no worlds out their fitting the description. Even now their is a few things I am going to have to change; but atleast its not a compelte rebuild. If you find out or anyone else knows about it *PLEASE* put down a brief post explaining it. I am not an Imperial Guard player, nor do I know a whole lot about them; and anything would be a help. Mortom's swamp rats - that may work .Although using the word rats seems quite dirogative of them; plus I'll expect ever other world has a an Imperial Guard Regiment with rat in the title. I am going to have to have a think about the name some more, but something along those lines I will probably end up with. Plus I like your discription of their style of attack; sneeky rather then marching in huge regiments. Makes them distinctive, which can only be good news.
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Post by Destecado on Nov 22, 2004 9:38:32 GMT -5
Mortom's swamp rats - that may work .Although using the word rats seems quite dirogative of them; plus I'll expect ever other world has a an Imperial Guard Regiment with rat in the title. I am going to have to have a think about the name some more, but something along those lines I will probably end up with. The word rat can carry a bad connotation, but it can also point to their survivability or tenacity. Another possible name might be Mortons Mud Dogs...again tenacious territorial fighters. These would probably be units drawn from the lower regions of the planet in the swampy areas. You might have a larger amount of the IG units drawn from people in these marginal communities, because it is a way to escape the poverty and harsh living conditions at home...(a chance for better food, clothes, etc.)
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Post by RascalLeader on Nov 22, 2004 19:17:53 GMT -5
True, but it still makes them sound like vermin Perhaps I should decide what animals they have on the planet first before giving them such names. It would be some what silly if their unit title is a creature unheard of to most of those in the unit. Excellent idea! Fantastic in fact; it would work quite well the the overall idea of the impoverished nature of most of the populence. btw - I thought most of the Imperial Guard were taken from the Planatary defence force then sent out on crusaides to other worlds. Do they actully have places for not milltary people to join up? Again I have some big gaps in my knowledge in this area, most of what I know comes from the 2nd Edition Codex Imperialis. So I only know the sceme of things painted in broad brushstrokes, not the details. I am compeltly clueless when It comes to information on where they would be sent to, or where they would be based while not in a campaign. Would they even leave the Sub/Sector area. Its all very good coming up with an idea for a good unit but unless I can find out these things its going to be alot of guess work and reaserching.
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Post by CELS on Nov 23, 2004 3:46:44 GMT -5
btw - I thought most of the Imperial Guard were taken from the Planatary defence force then sent out on crusaides to other worlds. Do they actully have places for not milltary people to join up? Yeah, people without any military background (such as PDF) can join the Imperial Guard, apparently. In the Gaunt's Ghosts novels, there are several of the Tanith 1st that appear to have no background in the 'Tanith Militia'. Some of them used to work in lumber mills, for example. There isn't too much fluff on where units are sent, so I'm afraid we're left with common sense most of the time. Obviously, there's little point in raising an Imperial Guard regiment to defend its own world. That is, after all, the job of the PDF. Second, there's little point in sending a regiment halfway across the galaxy, unless they're going to an extremely important war, such as the 13th Black Crusade. In the Anargo sector, most (as in 99%) Imperial Guard regiments present would be from the Anargo sector (for example an Imperial Guard regiment from Archaios defending the Castellan subsector), or from the neighbouring sectors (For example the Lazarus sector) Btw, if you're looking for something swampy but not too similar to catachans, how about a new type of rough riders? Many people have used Dark Elf Cold Ones for their IG rough rider conversions, for example.
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