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Post by CELS on Jul 21, 2004 21:04:51 GMT -5
Hey all, I had an idea after reading Double Eagle (by Dan Abnett) the other day. In this novel, one of the pilots is wearing chainmail. This might sound silly to you, and I'm sure you'll be further distressed by the fact that the Imperium is also using some prop aircraft in the novel, but anyway...
I thought chainmail would be too heavy for the average infantryman, so what about other materials in (chain)mail? The Vitrian dragoons use some kind of glass or reflective material that can either hang loosely or be activated to form solid surfaces. So I guess whatever type of glass or reflective material they're using is also an option.
What about ceramite (chain)mail though? Ceramite should be far lighter than both steel and whatever armoured glass the Vitrians are using, right?
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Post by Dazo on Jul 21, 2004 22:23:02 GMT -5
Titanium chain mail would be lighter and stronger than steel, I don't really know what ceramite is, is it a metal a ceramic what?.
Perhaps cheap laminate armour, didn't they use to use paper armour in ancient china, maybe somthing like that though pehaps not with paper. Armour taken from native animals like bone or the shells of giant insects ;)maybe
reflective armour would be very expensive and proof against las fire but pretty useless against solid shot
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 22, 2004 0:16:32 GMT -5
Unsurprisingly the imagery behind much of the armour in 40k is confused, more so by the assumptions made in the wargame: none, mesh, flak, carapace, power and terminator. Everything else is made to fit into that scheme and, of course, there is the cross-over with the old WFB. Unsurprisingly, your leather is your flak equivalent, mesh is your chainmail equivalent, plate is your power equivalent (6+, 5+, 4+ saves respectively)... Some armour types that spring up (i.e. looking at GURPS Ultra-Tech! ) include: - Combat Infantry Dress (GTL8): Basically the type of armour used by the Guard. Chemically-coated clothing with a 'flak' vest of 'steel' inserts adding protection to the chest and abdomen. Normally combined with a helmet. (Advanced versions are equivalent to the old "Sealed Suit" option.)
- Monocrys(GTL8): Similar to Kevlar and more of a 'civilian' version.
- Reflec (GTL8): Similar to the verison mentioned above by CELS. However, since I work on the premise that 'lasweapons' are actually 'blasters', it's not actually that common.
- Dermal Armour (GLT9): Armour that is implanted into the body itself.
- Infantry Combat Armour (GTL9): Basically carapace armour. Predecessor to power armour.
- Powered Combat Armour (GTL10): Your basic power armour.
- Reflex Armour (GTL10): Made of electrically active bioplastic, it is normally flexible until integrated sensors detect an attack, at which point it becomes 'rigid'. One might think of this as a version of Mesh armour. (The technology can obviously be modified to an EVA/vacc suit.)
- Force Shields (various, GTL11+): Obviously your different type of forcefields!
Well, there's some. There are, of course, genre-specific ones or even higher-tech than the Imperium is capable of producing (e.g. cybersuits, which are basically eldar 'aspect armour').
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Post by eustakos on Jul 23, 2004 7:23:30 GMT -5
And dont forgett CESCombat Enviroment Suit GTL 9+ A form fitting, flexible Body armor, DR 24, & Pressure-proof, just add gloves (Shoes), Helmet & Live support, and you have a Vacc/Flightsuit. This one is from GURPS-Traveller.
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Post by Dazo on Jul 23, 2004 7:30:56 GMT -5
There is also Bonded armour which combines the effects of two different types of armour. And Ablative armour
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 23, 2004 7:44:51 GMT -5
There are, basically, more types of armour than you can shake a stick at. As to 'ceramite chainmail'... whatever turns you on. It's not the type of thing that I would incorporate into a game...
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Post by CELS on Jul 23, 2004 8:17:26 GMT -5
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 23, 2004 8:39:57 GMT -5
Sorry about that, I couldn't resist. I just don't see the point in a 'chainmail' vest using an 'advanced material' unless you happen to be trying to keep a low profile on a world with medieval-type technology. Especially given the other possibilities, some of which are included above!
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Post by CELS on Jul 23, 2004 9:25:11 GMT -5
A fair point. Unfortunately, I am forced by the rule of cool to make ceramite mesh armour one of my inventions What do you mean by 'blasters' though, Kage?
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 23, 2004 12:04:11 GMT -5
Now Mesh armour, as above, is a completely different thing entirely.
Blasters? It's just how I represent Imperium lasweapons. The descriptions of how they operate, etc., don't lend themselves to being true 'lasers'. Blasters ala the Star Wars approach. Same kind of damage but not as flexible in reference to 'autofire' as a 'true laser'...
It's an imagery thing... ;D
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Post by Sojourner on Jul 26, 2004 21:36:27 GMT -5
You've never heard of an E-Web, obviously ;D
Anyway. I don't think 'mail' is a versatile option, not even in titanium. Titanium is actually extremely dense, objects made of it are only light because you don't need much of it. Also, it's brittle. Titanium shatters rather than distorting much, so it isn't a good armouring material.
Solid carapaces are a more realistic option if they're made of composites, kevlar-like materials and so on - obviously metal will be too heavy. Think of expanding a modern-day Class Four bulletproof vest (that's enough to stop point-blank assault rifle fire) over the whole body. It'll weigh a ton even in advanced lightweight materials but if you're not in close quarters it'll protect pretty well.
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Post by Dazo on Jul 30, 2004 5:35:12 GMT -5
Exactly thats why it would make for good armour, and it most certantly is not brittle its a space age metal very strong, light and durable, I cant see them using Titanium on multi billion dollar aircraft if its not up to the job. It might shatter but how large a force would you have to apply for that to happen
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 30, 2004 5:43:43 GMT -5
Making cross material comparisons can be sometimes problematic at best. Consider, for example, the oft-stated concept that bone actually has a tensile strength greater than steel... Doesn't mean that you would want to build bridges of bone, though...
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Post by Sojourner on Jul 30, 2004 5:45:20 GMT -5
I am telling you, titanium is not a good armour metal because it SHATTERS EASILY. It's used in aircraft because it's so strong, they only have to use very thin plating and lightweight superstructure because it doesn't warp.
Aanyway...
For high-tech societies, organic fibres similar to spider silk are a possibility. Silk is not rigid so having it stop a bullet would probably result in massive internal bruising and slow death, but it'll happily stop bladed weapons. An undershirt made of this kind of material would be invaluable for close combat troops.
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Post by Dazo on Jul 30, 2004 5:49:40 GMT -5
Or you could use it as part of a laminate armour, which is the way armour is going now. The mongol horde used silk shirts instead of chainmail as it was easier to pull the arrow out, the silk was pushed into the wound because arrows had a hard job penetrating it Hmmm you sure about that, what about wraithbone could you built a bridge out off that
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