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Post by Sojourner on Feb 5, 2004 14:48:58 GMT -5
I shall ask again: Where did you get the idea of antimatter drives from?
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Post by Minister on Feb 5, 2004 15:03:50 GMT -5
He's grasping around to try and find out where to fit plasma drives in his nice regimented RPG system.
And it's not working. ;D
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 6, 2004 5:48:14 GMT -5
Ah, then I misunderstood the purpose of the Factory. I don't see the Ordinatus being very important to an RPG, so I guess I should have put this thread elsewhere. In retrospect, I've reconsidered... Your statement suggested that there was no purpose - either wargame or RPG - for the 'ordinatus' rather than just something to add to the 'fluff'. In this case it would be entirely a 'fluff' construct which someone might take up... However, as Sojourner/AF-Metallus' and Minister's antogonism suggest, and one or two of the threads, then perhaps there is a reason for it. I shall stand corrected. Such is the nature of being reasonably open-minded. With that said, however, Sojourner and Minister: I would appreciate you being polite. On antimatter drives... The suggestion was made for two rather obvious reasons. Firstly, plasma could be arguably present in both fusion and antimatter drives. I believe, Sojourner, you made this point later. I apologise in the fact that I didn't feel it necessary to point this out. Secondly, there is the concept advocated by many that certain 'power plants' or 'drive systems' cannot be produced in the current Imperium. An antimatter power plant, in my conception, would fit into this and would subscribe to the purposes of the project to answering some of the questions that many feel unnecessary to answer. These people often, unfortunately, make comments such as Minister above: If you define something it is a bad thing, since it doesn't allow subsequent flexibility. I've personally found much arguments to be meaningless. The 40k universe is in need of some answers even if some of them are questionable or considered 'inappropriate'. Minster... That is the first time I've ever seen you being rude. I've done it myself before but have the somewhat dubious excuse of being drunk. Maybe I'm just being overtly sensitive, which might be the case given the thrust of the comment. But as always I try to address individual responses. Yes, there is a structure to the RPG system that I use (and I use numerous system, but have selected one for representation of the 40k universe; one that is flexible enough to take up the mire that is the 'fluff' and not only be responsive but to transfer that structure). I'm afraid the suggestions being made do fit and are entirely possible and plausibel with "my regimented system which isn't working". But that system does offer some structure to where structure is lacking? Why must these things be so big, other than GW often saying so yet having smaller devices which more than likely require nuclear devices and more likely fusion devices. That is all that I was getting at, as well as offering more options. Apparently something to be charred for. I shall go now and resist the urge to close a popular thread for rudeness, just because it is directed at me. My responses are, however, childishly unlikely to appear here again. It seems that none of us are resistant to those urges... /Kage
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Post by Minister on Feb 6, 2004 10:04:36 GMT -5
I do apologize, that was supposed to be sarcasm rather than impoliteness, although I do occasionally forget that sarcasm doesn't work in type.
And I'm not complaining about the idea of using an RPG system to get the technology base (although I do feel that ocasionally we need to look at it from the point of view of an Imperial citizen on the "it's called X it does Y and anything else is incomprehensable, sticking to efect rather than anything else).
On topic(ish), I personally don't feel antimatter to be apropriate. The saftey margins are too high for the 40K atitudes to technology. Which doesn't mean that they can't create the stuff, only that I don't feel it would be in widespread use.
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Post by CELS on Feb 6, 2004 13:01:02 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear that any hostility was unintended. I never suspected that Minister was actually being rude (intentionally). Of course, these things are hard to judge. I learned that back when I was the owner/moderator of a 40k mailing group with a couple of hundred people from all over the world. After numerous episodes such as this one though, we quickly decided that using smileys was a good way of showing a friendly tone, even in sarcasm, and I suggest we use the same "safety-system" here, in doubtful situations. Smileys are usually a good indicator generally too. If actually trying to insult someone, few people bother with them.
Since we have so different opinions on 40k and how this project would best work, a few friendly stabs at others' way of thinking is quite natural. Kage will accuse us of 'wargame logic' and some will accuse him of going too far down the RPG path.
Right, that's enough spamming from me ;D
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Post by Sojourner on Feb 6, 2004 13:45:45 GMT -5
Antimatter as a power source is a dubious concept at best because it would take at least the amount of energy yielded to produce the antimatter in the first place. Hence a net energy loss.
As a weapon on the other hand...
;D
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Post by Sojourner on Feb 6, 2004 13:47:37 GMT -5
You have got to be kidding...?
"Investigate the disappearance of the Ordinatus" "Hijack the Ordinatus" "Escape the Ordinatus" "Destroy the Ordinatus"
etc, etc. So much potential...
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Post by CELS on Feb 6, 2004 14:21:48 GMT -5
Well, it's just that I imagine this machine being guarded by a small army when it's not in use. When it is in use, it would carry ten small armies. Hijack it? Escape it? Destroy it? Unless you're RPing as Warmaster Abaddon.... I don't think so ;D
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Post by Sojourner on Feb 6, 2004 14:54:00 GMT -5
Just about the odds that Luke Skywalker faces on a daily basis, then?
;D
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 6, 2004 20:39:14 GMT -5
Fairy snuff... and incidentally that ";D" didn't load up the first time that I read this thread... With regards to taking a "Joe Imperium's eye view" of technology, describing the technology does not preclude that. I personally divide the warp into several layers, but common perception sees it as an undifferentiated mass... But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't know what it truly is. Same with the 'plasma engine'. If 'antimatter' is too implausible - and one common feature of sci-fi games is that they find an 'easy' way to do that (and this is one of the points of suspension of disbelief, as is such things as superluminal travel) - then that sticks us with fusion and below (fission, internal combustion, fuel cells, etc.) as being the only power systems available to the Imperium. It must means that Golden Age power plants would have been slightly cheaper to make (half-price) compared to Imperial ones... but not really that much of a difference in terms of power generation per unit volume. Wargame enthusiasts might find this a problem, especially given they tend to mention that whole 10 TW (or whatever) engine mentioned in the 'fluff'... (I suggest this only because fusion maxes out, in GURPS terms, at TL11. If you're wanting more exotic drive systems then you're stepping on the toes of the Necrons (TL14 Total Conversion) or the eldar...) Just about the odds that Luke Skywalker faces on a daily basis, then? ;D Thankfully I personally do not subscribe to that type of space opera... Kage
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Post by Minister on Feb 7, 2004 9:08:45 GMT -5
Other point I would like to put forward is that we don't necessarily have to have the same level of technology for different achievements. For the same reason as I don't like Star Wars versus Star Trek and the like: each system/universe makes a different set of assumptions as to the difficulty of doing things. For example, almost all will "invent" a way of travelling FTL (otherwise it makes planet-hopping rather hard), but the technology level to achieve it varies (ST had a FTL drive built in the 2060s, B5 had aliens selling us the technology after 2156). Therefore we may wish to re-arrange the order and/or contents of the tech levels (particularly the Gravic one from GURPS) to better fit.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 7, 2004 9:36:18 GMT -5
Yes, I know that, which is why I started the thread that I mentioned previously. The average of 10 for the modern Imperium was selected since this was the minimum that was possible for the warp drive. TL12 was selected for Golden Age since that was also the minimum for 'gravitic' societies, something which at one point was considered quite rare... Something that is probably also quite rare, I would argue, but that is the reason that I started the Imperial technology thread... Perhaps we could continue this discussion there, where we can think about the potential ramifications and changes to the structure, rather than hogging CELS' "ultimate weapons of mass destruction" thread ( )... Kage
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Post by malika on Aug 15, 2004 8:11:31 GMT -5
I dont know if this is spam (probably is) but this might be fun for you guys, since we are talking about Ordinatus here...I found a model from the Ordinatus Armageddon
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Post by ErnestBorgnine on Aug 15, 2004 9:13:37 GMT -5
Well, since someone revived the thread, what about that submarine?
I like the idea, I'm just trying to figure out the tactical/strategic use, which would then dictate the feature-set and capabilities.
The most obvious reason to build it is that there are extensive high-value targets on the sea-bed of the world in question.
If the goal is to protect undersea assets, the first problem is how the Imperium builds/resupplies those assets. If there's a massive floating/coastal spacedock which connects via a multi-kilometer elevator to the submarine city, would you build subs or just rely on air cover and surface defences? If someone takes out/holds on to the spacedock, the undersea city is of limited value. If resupply is done by submarine, that changes the equation, but could that ever be practical?
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Post by Sojourner on Aug 17, 2004 10:31:07 GMT -5
Thar Ord. Armageddon is niice...
I like it.
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