Post by Kage2020 on Mar 23, 2004 4:36:10 GMT -5
This is something that I've tried to get at before in various means on another forum but with little direct sense. I'm going to try again but perhaps the weakness lies in trying to maintain the discussion as a generic thing without specific mention of individual RPG game mechanics...?
The poll is more a parallel thing since I would hope that participation is more in the form of discussion than anything else. I've also got the sneaky suspicion that option 4 might be popular since 'fluffalogically' it is the most correct answer. The question is, however, the ultimate question of the thread: How does one represent this in RPG game mechanics?
Historically I've taken three different approaches to the problem of "psykers" in the 40k universe. Originally I viewed them as psionicists. Their abilities revolved purely around 'psionics'/'psychogenics' as represented in GURPS Psionics (remembering that GURPS is my system of choice). Thus there was no real 'power expenditure' in terms of a diminishing energy reserve, only fatigue if you pushed yourself beyond your limits, either in re-attempting a failed power use or extending your abilities...
Then in reading the various novels - as well as just remembering how the 40k wargame represents psyker abilities - that not only did the basis lie in 'magic', but also the majority of the description. Flashy pyrotechnics often accompanied the practice of psyker abilities: eyes would glow, energy discharges would run around the room, 'psyker fire' or 'psyker ice' would abound, etc. Here you have a direct connection with a 'power reserve' (read: the warp) as represented with 'magic points' (mana, ka, whatever), at least in many systems. The solution seems perfect...
Except that for 'low level' uses covering such topics as 'telepathy' or what-not the psionic model seems the best... Psykers use these abilities left, right and centre without any real difficulty.
So now I come back to the initial idea which I rapidly discarded due to some of the complexities: using both psionics and magic. Psykers, for the most part, use psionics until a certain 'threshold' where they begin to dip into the realms of magic (i.e. chaos sorcerery, etc.).
But how would this be represented mechanically? In GURPS terms the answer might be that all individuals with psionic abilites are automatically also 'mages' (read: they have the advantage "Magical Aptitude") and if they receive formal training they can access spells in that area. This is actually quite a simple and convenient answer now that I think about it...
But what about 'chaos sorcerers' or 'raw talents'. How would these be represented? A number of possibilities suggest themselves. With reference to 'chaos sorcerers' the concept of the Divine raises it's head: are their abilities ultimately bequethed to them by the Ruinous Powers? In a similar concept one might extend this to a limited fraction of the adeptus ministorum: true believers in the Divine Emperor... or certain philosophies of the adeptus mechanicus who might access a 'proto-Machine God' (I don't like this last idea; they'd be more into 'enchantment')...
'Raw talents' would be those who have access to a small range of 'magical knacks', perhaps...?
Or is the answer to draw from a separate system altogether? There are many out there which differnetiate between magic and psionics but which ultimately use the same system... I'm reminded of the concepts of Vril and Ka in Mythus: Dangerous Journeys where the concepts are at least interchangeable in moving from psychogenics into magic/dweomercraeft/etc...
Similarly there is something like GURPS Voodoo where everything revolves around the 'spirit world', and ultimately all form of 'magic' is the extension of spirit/daemonic abilities...
The problem is there are opti8ons galore out there but not all of them are always applicable!
Erm, I'm now rambling so I'll leave it where it is and go to work. Hopefully they'll be some interesting replies when I get back! ;D
Kage
The poll is more a parallel thing since I would hope that participation is more in the form of discussion than anything else. I've also got the sneaky suspicion that option 4 might be popular since 'fluffalogically' it is the most correct answer. The question is, however, the ultimate question of the thread: How does one represent this in RPG game mechanics?
Historically I've taken three different approaches to the problem of "psykers" in the 40k universe. Originally I viewed them as psionicists. Their abilities revolved purely around 'psionics'/'psychogenics' as represented in GURPS Psionics (remembering that GURPS is my system of choice). Thus there was no real 'power expenditure' in terms of a diminishing energy reserve, only fatigue if you pushed yourself beyond your limits, either in re-attempting a failed power use or extending your abilities...
Then in reading the various novels - as well as just remembering how the 40k wargame represents psyker abilities - that not only did the basis lie in 'magic', but also the majority of the description. Flashy pyrotechnics often accompanied the practice of psyker abilities: eyes would glow, energy discharges would run around the room, 'psyker fire' or 'psyker ice' would abound, etc. Here you have a direct connection with a 'power reserve' (read: the warp) as represented with 'magic points' (mana, ka, whatever), at least in many systems. The solution seems perfect...
Except that for 'low level' uses covering such topics as 'telepathy' or what-not the psionic model seems the best... Psykers use these abilities left, right and centre without any real difficulty.
So now I come back to the initial idea which I rapidly discarded due to some of the complexities: using both psionics and magic. Psykers, for the most part, use psionics until a certain 'threshold' where they begin to dip into the realms of magic (i.e. chaos sorcerery, etc.).
But how would this be represented mechanically? In GURPS terms the answer might be that all individuals with psionic abilites are automatically also 'mages' (read: they have the advantage "Magical Aptitude") and if they receive formal training they can access spells in that area. This is actually quite a simple and convenient answer now that I think about it...
But what about 'chaos sorcerers' or 'raw talents'. How would these be represented? A number of possibilities suggest themselves. With reference to 'chaos sorcerers' the concept of the Divine raises it's head: are their abilities ultimately bequethed to them by the Ruinous Powers? In a similar concept one might extend this to a limited fraction of the adeptus ministorum: true believers in the Divine Emperor... or certain philosophies of the adeptus mechanicus who might access a 'proto-Machine God' (I don't like this last idea; they'd be more into 'enchantment')...
'Raw talents' would be those who have access to a small range of 'magical knacks', perhaps...?
Or is the answer to draw from a separate system altogether? There are many out there which differnetiate between magic and psionics but which ultimately use the same system... I'm reminded of the concepts of Vril and Ka in Mythus: Dangerous Journeys where the concepts are at least interchangeable in moving from psychogenics into magic/dweomercraeft/etc...
Similarly there is something like GURPS Voodoo where everything revolves around the 'spirit world', and ultimately all form of 'magic' is the extension of spirit/daemonic abilities...
The problem is there are opti8ons galore out there but not all of them are always applicable!
Erm, I'm now rambling so I'll leave it where it is and go to work. Hopefully they'll be some interesting replies when I get back! ;D
Kage