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Vaeloni
Nov 15, 2004 3:57:58 GMT -5
Post by Insidious Threat on Nov 15, 2004 3:57:58 GMT -5
Right, i have been working on the basic appearance idea, and looking through the artwork... It seems that a major departure from the current physical theme is the only answer but i have what i think could be a solution. True, the 'werewolf; idea is kinda poor, and so a major rethink is required indeed... Soooo... before i go into a second draft thread, the issue of the physical nature of this species needs to be sorted... I have trashed the '2 sub breed' idea, and just created two seperate castes, both physically similar, but one slightly more slight of build and agile due to environmental factors in their line if work. Also, making them look a bit fiercer, befitting their nomadic and fiery tempered nature would be good, but i need to retain their civilised aspects. One thing that i actualyl have sorted, but I have no scanner , is a description of the creature's head: The skull of this creature bears a passing resemblance to examples of Fenrisian wolves, but here the comparison ends. They are longer snouted, but have no visible sensory organs where a nose would be expected. The inside of the muzzle where the olfactory organs should be is entirely replaced with muscle that is used to increase the depth and tearing power of their bite, enabling them to bite through limbs with ease with a well placed bite. There is also a bony crest at the rear of the skull, which is partially visible through the mane of fur that they have.
The teeth themselves are backward pointing canines to the fore of the muzzle, with two rows of shark-l;ike teeth as the back for chewing the meat that they tear off with the fore-most teeth.
Jet black, smooth skin covers most of the head, and it is constantly covered in a fine oily substance, which seems to prevent the dermal layer from drying or suffering damage in extreme sunlight (due to the intense Light/Darkness cycles on Vaelos). The only hair that they have is a long fur-mane which starts at the crown of the cranium and extends down the back and along the tail. This mane can vary from bright white to dull grey, but females tend towards the whiter, and brighter manes.
The strangest feature of these creatures is the arrangement of sensory organs. They have two eyes set in the front of their skull, is similar positions to human eyes, which are used for seeing in normal spectrums of light. Two pits set and inch and a half back from the eyes on either side of the head are filled with a wrinkled skin, surrounding a tiny ruby red orb. This small (5mm) organ is able to detect thermal emissions, and scale up and down to screen out unwanted thermal signiatures. It is theorised that this is due to the long, harsh pitch darkness conditions during the months long night on the main Vaeloni continent. Seeing through the infra-red spectrum enables them to thrive in darkness, and this sense is only midly less accurate than their normal vision, although it is easily confused if unwanted emissions cannot be screened. The last organ looks like a standard 'dog' ear (wolf like), but there the similarity ends. The actual ear is a flashy flap held up by cartilage, which funnels sounds into the ear cavity to the ear drum, and this organ is exceptionally sensitive (both good and bad, extremes of noise are painful to bear). Behind this is an extension of the 'mane' across a rigid cartilage plate. When the front ear flaps are closed, thus rendering the Vaeloni effectively deaf, they are able to key into the last sound that they were focussing on, and use the sensitive hair arrangements on the cartilage plate to zone in on the source of that sound.
As can be expected, this makes them good hunter-trackers.
The olfactory organs are situated within the muscle sheaf of the muzzle, so the Vaeloni literally tastes the air to smell it. As they breathe through their mouths, this is not too much different to standard mammalian 'smell' senses.I really need to get a working scanner, but this has been working on designs that Juddski has been doing as well as all of your suggestions. I hope that this more alien concept is more to your liking... Personally i am glad now that I have been disuasded from my earlier ideas.... What was I thinking eh?
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Vaeloni
Nov 15, 2004 7:53:46 GMT -5
Post by Dazo on Nov 15, 2004 7:53:46 GMT -5
Do any of these come close to what you had in mind
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Vaeloni
Nov 15, 2004 8:05:16 GMT -5
Post by Insidious Threat on Nov 15, 2004 8:05:16 GMT -5
The top most one is very very close I like and thanx for the very quick reply. Working on explaining away their evolution, it ain't beautiful, but it won't half scare those damned Imperials
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Vaeloni
Nov 15, 2004 9:02:08 GMT -5
Post by Dazo on Nov 15, 2004 9:02:08 GMT -5
;DYeah I like the top one aswell, maybe judd can take that and flesh it out abit, as I am no goood at anatomy and drawing people....errr people like creatures. I would suggest giving them longer arms and shorter more powerful hind legs, this should make them even less humanised.
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Vaeloni
Nov 15, 2004 15:28:15 GMT -5
Post by Destecado on Nov 15, 2004 15:28:15 GMT -5
I have trashed the '2 sub breed' idea, and just created two seperate castes, both physically similar, but one slightly more slight of build and agile due to environmental factors in their line if work. If you are going to do a caste system, then be very careful. Most of the ones that I have seen have come out sounding like just another form of the Tau. If I could make a suggestion, you may want to stick with the pack idea rather than going down the road of the caste system. With a caste system, it is very difficult for an individual to arrive above his caste or to move from one caste to another. This does not seem to fit with the strong individualistic hunters you are describing. Might not the differences in size be described through the domination of certain memebers of the society over others. This is the concept of the Alpha male with a pecking order down through the social group. This pecking order not only covers who can associate with whom, but also the differing members access to food. Those of smaller size may well have been the runts of their litter, pushed out by their stronger brothers and sisters. This is most vital during the maturation process of the animal. Even in humans, the diet we eat as young chldren up through our early to late teens play a vital factor in how we develope and grow. In order to judge how much this will effect their later lives, it is important to discuss their life span and how long it take them to mature. do they gain much of their muscel mass within 3-4 years as with dogs or cats, or is it a much slower process requiring a decade or more? Also, making them look a bit fiercer, befitting their nomadic and fiery tempered nature would be good, but i need to retain their civilised aspects. Nomadic culture might point to an unstable availability in food. This again may pont to a society based on a kind of "pecking order", where those at the top have first access to the best food available. The fierce nature is to maintain their dominance at the top of the pile. The skull of this creature bears a passing resemblance to examples of Fenrisian wolves, but here the comparison ends. They are longer snouted, but have no visible sensory organs where a nose would be expected. The inside of the muzzle where the olfactory organs should be is entirely replaced with muscle that is used to increase the depth and tearing power of their bite, enabling them to bite through limbs with ease with a well placed bite. There is also a bony crest at the rear of the skull, which is partially visible through the mane of fur that they have. Replacing the all factory organ with muscle is not going to increase bite force, based on the current picture of the Vaeloni. Large thicker jaw muscles factor into an increase in bite force, but the placement of the jaw muscles would not be in line with your placement of the olfactory center. Elongating the skull or having the larger jaw muscles tied into a structural similar to the sagittal crest in gorillas (serves as the attachment fot the temporalis muscle) would also increase the bite force. But bite force is more a function of the jaws crushing strength rather than its ability to shear through an object. Having the right teeth to take advantage of the increased jaw strength is just as important. Gorillas have about 1700 pounds per square inch of bite force (the human average is approximately 400 ppsi), but this is generally used for crushing the plant fiber that makes up a predominant portion of their diet. Their teeth for the most part are flat or rounded to aide in this crushing prossess. A sharks teeth by comparison are serrated. As the jaw moves up and down, the serrated edge of the teeth slice back and forth across the surface it is biting into, increasing the sheer force that leads to the characteristic shark bite marks. The teeth themselves are backward pointing canines to the fore of the muzzle, with two rows of shark-l;ike teeth as the back for chewing the meat that they tear off with the fore-most teeth. Perhaps having the back rows pointing back wards in order to "hold" or force the foud down their throat as they chew would be useful, but for the sheering force that you want from the front teeth, need teeth that are straight. This gives them full extension during the bit to run the surface over the entire serrated edge. It also eliminates the problem of an object becoming caught on the teeth if the Vaeloni is not able to bite all the way through its intended victim. Going back to the olfactory sense for a moment...The rounded snout of the Vaeloni reminds me alot of the snout of the shark. You could perhaps modify the sixth sense use by sharks into something to replace the Vaeloni's sense of smell. In sharks, tiny pores on the snout lead to jelly-filled sacs known as ampullae of Lorenzini. This sense can detect very weak electrical fields that can detect electrical "vibes" as weak half a billionth of a volt. Struggling or scared animal creates a strong electrical current, which flows through the water, and even though it gets weaker as it travels away from the animal sharks can pick it up. Every animal sends electrical "vibes". Of course the Vaeloni are not submerged in water, but perhaps the jelly-filled sacks can break down the spore (Scent trail) chemically in a much greater detail than our own scence of smell. rather than the oily substance being all over the head of the Vaeloni, perhaps it is produced by a gland in the snout. The oily residue makes the particulates necessary for detecting scents adhere more readily to the snout area. Perhaps the vaeloni also have a tendancy to fly into a frenzy when feeding. Muzzel deep in their prey, their snout may become covered in blood, completely overwhelming their sense of smeel with blood, causing them to go berzerk...just some thoughts on the Vaeloni. I hope they help.
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Vaeloni
Nov 16, 2004 4:19:56 GMT -5
Post by Insidious Threat on Nov 16, 2004 4:19:56 GMT -5
Wow.... Thanks everyone, cos this is really opening up a gold mine here. That drawing is definitely the way forwards it seems (thanks a lot Dazo ), and Destecado, you have made some really good points there. The point that i am most interested in is the 'Jaw Muscle' point. Maybe a lining of muscle in the upper snout that draws the back 'shark' teeth to the rear of the mouth when biting down would explain a more powerful bite, not through sheer pressure, but by that rapid sawing motion that this would cause. Increasing the muscle mass in the jaw is definitely the way to go it seems, thanx for the information on that - i did not know there was so much in the arrangement of muscles there. As for the 'Shark' sense, i think that this is a good departure from the sensory ranges currently in 40K fluff. Also, this would enable me to explain a kind of respiration that relies on oxygen being absorbed through the oils on the skin rather than needing to breathe through the mouth (which would essentially suffocate them if thye were in a feeding frenzy). Absorbing chemicals through this layer and interpreting them as nerve signals in a sac based within the fore of the snout would definitely make alot of sense. I do like the pack civilisation ideal. This is a very close suggestion to the kind of caste system that i had planned for the Vaeloni. Their caste system is dynamic, as you are not born into one of the two castes, but actually progress to the 'Leading' caste by being the most succuessful at what you do. As you have said, the more skill a Vaeloni has at what they do (not just fighting, although thsi is a big part of their culture, as they do need to hunt), the more respect and power they gain. All Vaeloni have an instinctive desire to form clan bonds with others of their kind that seem to be able to teach them more about their own skills, but they are always testing their leaders. This leads to a situation where two clear castes arise in all social situations. The so called 'Elders' who can be any age, which represent the most skilled and influential Vaeloni currently present. The second caste is the 'pack' Vaeloni who follow in the wake of a more powerful and impressive Vaeloni hoping that they will master such levels of skill in their chosen field some day. Okies... Growth and the Formative years, as you said, Destecado, are extremely important. The gestation period of a Vaeloni is 6 months, closely following the developmental stages that humans go through, but with more emphasis on central nervous development, and with a much increased genetic stability rate. For the first three years of their life, Vaeloni develop rapidly, being able to walk within weeks and talk within months, (to an infant degree of skill). During these three years, they are dependant upon their parents to provide for them, as they lack the skill to use the rapidly developing senses that they have been born with, and are easily confused by conflicting signals. At the end of this three year 'basic' development period, the body starts to put on much more effecient muscle mass, quickly building the young Vaeloni's body mass up to human adult standard by their 5th year of life (by human years). Although muscle development is less staggering after this period, the muscle will continue to develop as long as the Vaeloni continues to challenge it's limits. Although there is an upper limit to this development, it is possible for them to out grow Orks before the end of their natural life span, although these are only extreme cases sported by veterans of the most intense campaigns. Most Vaeloni gain and intense desire to leave their birth pack at the age of 8, although it is not unknown for some to stay until their first decade of life is over. After they have left their parent pack, the young adult Vaeloni wil then try to impress a pack that they feel shares their interests (pack almost always having a particular type of speciality, be it Hunting, Engineering or any other task). After a time as Omega within the pack, in which time they are tried and tested almost constantly, they will gain acceptance or leave and try to join another pack. Such is the basic development of the Vaeloni. Parent packs are responsible for the tutelage of their young, but this seem to have little bearing on their personal specialites, as it is common for another pack to come and tutor the young of the parent pack if they fee lthat they have prmising young talent in their field of expretise awaiting them. This has led to the development of a close knit clan culture, with extended families sometimes even going as far as arranged 'placements' in packs, as well as arrange marriage, although the latter is frowned upon unless for diplomatic or racial reasons (in which case it betters the relations and the Vaeloni stop caring... simple as that really). Thats about it for now. Starting to revise the way that they work, but keeping the Canine social aspects with all of the new stuff that we have come up with Thanks again all, as you have really gotten me back on track with this stuff
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Vaeloni
Nov 19, 2004 7:25:32 GMT -5
Post by rsljudd on Nov 19, 2004 7:25:32 GMT -5
not the easiest/best angle to do it ,i'll see if i can do it again a bit clearer/better....any advice or changes? [a href=" "] [/a] btw,thanks daz' for the concept drawings...why don't you go for it daz' and finish them off??? p.s. some one tell me where i'm going wrong please.............and i don't mean comments like ''you shouldn't have picked a pencil up in thr first place''type thing ;D ;D
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Vaeloni
Nov 19, 2004 10:31:27 GMT -5
Post by Destecado on Nov 19, 2004 10:31:27 GMT -5
Judd, I think you drawing is pretty good...It is definitely a step in the right direction. The Sagital crest on the second image (large colored in figure) and the facial structure give the vaeloni a very ape like appearance. I'm still not sold on the ears though.
Instead of eliminating them, what about making them recessed, more like pits on either side of the head. The folds of skin around the neck could be used to focus sound into these canals....actually, I'm getting a little ahead of myself.
I think we need to lose the elongated neck that currently seems to be the trend in most of the pictures. Large hunt cats like lions and tigers as well as wolves and wild dogs go for their preys neck or throat.
Lions attempt to snap the spinal cord in order to imobilize their prey. Wolves will attempt to tear at the troat to imobilize their prey. The out growth of the vaeloni mane may have been an evolutionary adaptation to protect the sensative neck region.
They may also have losser skin in this area like cats or dogs do in the scruff of their neck. Another evolutionary adaptation might be a ability to pull their neck back under the folds of muscel and skin at the back of their neck for added protection from attacks there.
To an observer this would appear as if the head sprouts directly from the Vaelonis shoulders. Keeping in line with the jaw muscels, if the Vaeloni had strong, but more elastic ligaments, they could also perhaps hyperextend their neck out from under the protective covering of skin folds. At full exstension (about an aditional 6 inches to 1 foot), the skin fold would be fully stretched.
This flexible neck structure would give the Vaeloni the ability to rearback and quickly strike forward, perhaps surprising an enemy or prey. The jaw is also a little out of proportion. The side figures need to have a larger lower jaw, to represent the larger jaw muscels...right now it look like a furry aligator.
Back to the ears. Large ears might get in the way of this retractable neck arangement or their hearing would suffer when the head was pulled back in this fashion. The ear pits would allow for hearing up close, while the skin folds focus the sound towards them in a similar manner to our own ear structure.
Of course this would mean that their hearing would not be as good when their neck was extended, but I think I may have a solution for this. What if the Vaeloni also have an internal ear. This would rundown through the sagittal ridge (large bony protrusion on the top of their head) and down along the back under the main.
This structure is similar to the sense of distant touch used in sharks and many varieties of fish. It is a series of canals that run along the central line of the fish. Of course the Vaeloni do not live in the water, but a similar structure might have developes incorporating their mane and these internal organs.
It would be similar to an internal sonar, which would perhaps be more useful in the extreme dark than heat sensors. A heat sensor may be great for finding prey, but if the Vaeloni don't have a good idea of their surrounding, it would make chasing that prey difficult.
The canals are lined with small hairs, which pick up vibrations as they return to the body. It would not be unusual to hear Vaeloni roaring in the darkness. This low frequency vibration would bounce off surrounding objects and return back to the Vaeloni. The speed with which the vibrations return would tell how close the Vaeloni was to an object. would give the Vaeloni a kind of vibration echo maop of its surroundings.
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Vaeloni
Nov 20, 2004 4:48:48 GMT -5
Post by rsljudd on Nov 20, 2004 4:48:48 GMT -5
a couple of things first.i think concerning fish/sharks your talking about thr 'lateral line that goes all the way down the side of the body and lions actually suffocate their prey by grasping/clamping onto the windpipe ...that's why when the prey is down the lions are always 'clamped' under the head of the prey item.... *just showing off my little bit of knowledge* ;D thanks for the help on trying to get the pic right i myself actually thought that they were turning into Gorillas and crocodilla types. :-[i'll carry on trying just as long as everyone realises that this could be a long proccess to get it just right ;D...so thanks for the help/guidelines ,much appreciated Des'
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Vaeloni
Nov 20, 2004 5:40:16 GMT -5
Post by CELS on Nov 20, 2004 5:40:16 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that lions don't suffocate their victims, but rather stop the arterial veins in their neck. This is why the prey is supposed to be unconscious in a few seconds, and not after half a minute of struggling.
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Vaeloni
Nov 20, 2004 5:43:21 GMT -5
Post by rsljudd on Nov 20, 2004 5:43:21 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure that lions don't suffocate their victims, but rather stop the arterial veins in their neck. This is why the prey is supposed to be unconscious in a few seconds, and not after half a minute of struggling. NOPE they clamp down on their windpipe and choke the buggers to death,yep......*smarmy mode* ;D ;D CELS' Edit; I stand corrected. "Killing is normally accomplished in one of three ways; a nape of the neck bite for small prey that severs the spinal chord; a throat bite for larger prey that kills by strangulation; and a muzzle bite that also suffocates the quary."
It would seem I have been mislead...
Now, let's get back on topic.
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Vaeloni
Nov 20, 2004 8:23:47 GMT -5
Post by TheGlyphstone on Nov 20, 2004 8:23:47 GMT -5
so, the Vaeloni are now were-apes? Those sketches are good, it's nice to see that RSLJudd can draw more than Atlanteans....I nominate him as Official ASP Other Alien Races Forum Artist. ;D ;D
Destacado's comments on nomadic societies are making me think, I had the Atlanteans nomadic too ATM. Overall, this will be quite interesting once it's done, I'll have to include a mention of the Vaeloni in my history (since the fishboys will have watched them too).
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Vaeloni
Nov 20, 2004 9:26:19 GMT -5
Post by rsljudd on Nov 20, 2004 9:26:19 GMT -5
so, the Vaeloni are now were-apes? Those sketches are good, it's nice to see that RSLJudd can draw more than Atlanteans....I nominate him as Official ASP Other Alien Races Forum Artist. ;D ;D ;D ;Dlol thanks Glypth'....nice one,but don't forget it was Dazo that got me on the right track. ;)ok here goes,i think i've managed to get away from the gorilla /croc image...?the first one i think is more feral looking?? the second one is baring his teeth and protruding his jaw forward like a shark? type thing***not sure i got that quite right?.......***...?? SUGESTIONS?/HINTS?/ TIPS?/PIONTERS? most welcome [a href=" "] [/a]
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Vaeloni
Nov 20, 2004 9:56:42 GMT -5
Post by malika on Nov 20, 2004 9:56:42 GMT -5
The second one really reminds me of a Saiyan from Dragonball Z
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Vaeloni
Nov 20, 2004 10:00:30 GMT -5
Post by Dazo on Nov 20, 2004 10:00:30 GMT -5
Thank you, thank you, that was my plan, I get you the basic concept and you run with it, I love it when a plan comes together ;D The eyes are the main thing I think, make them smaller/meaner more evil looking, with large overhanging brows, and make the snout longer, also flatten the skull a bit more so its wider at the muzzle and tapering towards the back of the head. Don't ask me to do it mind, the one I did was a fluke, it happens alot, I do somthing good but I can never quite do it again and as I said I am crap at anatomy Would that be the uzaru, whooo goku, I prefer super saiyans myself
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