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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 30, 2003 10:43:14 GMT -5
It seems fairly obvious that we are going to have to come up with some 'history' for the conflict between the C'tan/Necrons and the Old Ones/Young Races. What do we know? Well, from discussion on the original thread in Portent the number of 'blasted stars' (supernova shells, dwarf stars, black holes, etc.) in the Anargo sector there was a strong sense that it should be one of the ancient battlefields. We also know that the centre of the sector is 'empty', with the Imperial subsectors hugging the 'outside'. It was therefore suggested that the single Necron tombworld be located here. Somewhere in the sector, probably towards the centre, the eldar craftworld colony of Tir'Asur is located. This need not be directly related to the tombworld nor any concepts of guardianship, but I thought that I would offer it up for consideration. There is as of yet no mention of pre-Fall eldar artefacts related to this colony world although I believe that there was mention of some form of artefact in the "Forgeworld subsector". Memory is hazy at this point. There is also the idea that there is something 'wrong' with the centre of the sector. We're not entirely sure about this, which is why it might be a good thing to discuss here, at least at the moment. As suggested by CELS I might be forced to start a background forum to discuss these 'meta' concepts, but at the moment I'm remiss to do this... (I'll probably change my mind in about ten minutes! ) Erm, that's enough for the moment... So some questions: What happened in the War in Heaven? We seem to have 'agreed' that in this place the Necrons got their noses bloodied (or would that be oiled ), but in what way? Since we're mentioning the Necrons, what about the Old Ones? Are there any remnants of their civilisation either in terms of another 'young race' or even ancient artefacts which are designed to prevent the Necrons from waking? Kage
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Post by malika on Dec 30, 2003 10:50:34 GMT -5
I like the idea that the necrons got their asses kicked here...so very minimal necron presence...some ruined world...destroyed and raided tombs ;D
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 30, 2003 10:54:09 GMT -5
If not over-used that is a quite interesting idea, and one that has been suggested before on Portent although I cannot remember by whom. The idea that surrounding the Necron tombworld are other worlds that have been blasted makes a powerful image and could be ultimately useful to the Imperium as a source of information on the Necrons. (I'm reminded of the Kryptman story where he has a psyker analyse some Tyranid technology/creatures...) The key concept here, however, is not over-using this idea. Anyway does anyone have a 'story' for the War in Heaven? Kage
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Post by CELS on Jan 3, 2004 6:53:55 GMT -5
It seems fairly obvious that we are going to have to come up with some 'history' for the conflict between the C'tan/Necrons and the Old Ones/Young Races. Will we actually be telling this story on our website, or is this just for our ourselves, to make it easier writing the history of Anargo? Because the Imperium really wouldn't know diddely about what went on here 60 million years ago, I assume, but there's always the possibility of doing one of the typical 'My one hour interview with the Eldar'-Inquisitor-thing. Of course, the idea is as over-used as they come Somewhere in the sector, probably towards the centre, the eldar craftworld colony of Tir'Asur is located. Really? I thought you'd decided to put Tir'Asur away from the centre, and have a second, smaller colony in the centre. Or was it the craftworld that would be away from the centre? Or was the craftworld not supposed to visit these parts very often...? Hmmm.. This need not be directly related to the tombworld nor any concepts of guardianship, but I thought that I would offer it up for consideration. It's a good as purpose for the colony as any, but I was personally very impressed with your reply that the purpose of the colony was merely to exist. This is an obvious thing that is often forgot in 40k, where everyone is obsessed with wars and conspiracies, and especially for the Eldar who are always given alterior motives and sly schemes. I have no problem with the colony being there just because it's a nice and quiet spot for a colony. I have no problem with the 'guardianship' either. There is as of yet no mention of pre-Fall eldar artefacts related to this colony world although I believe that there was mention of some form of artefact in the "Forgeworld subsector". Memory is hazy at this point. This was merely an attempt on my part to bring the Eldar to war with my xenos-loving Imperial Guard regiment. The idea is long dead and forgotten. As suggested by CELS I might be forced to start a background forum to discuss these 'meta' concepts, but at the moment I'm remiss to do this... (I'll probably change my mind in about ten minutes! ) LoL! It's good that you don't rush into things... What happened in the War in Heaven? We seem to have 'agreed' that in this place the Necrons got their noses bloodied (or would that be oiled ), but in what way? *smirks* Well, there's the old 'super-weapon' idea. The Eldar or Old ones or whomever built some kind of super weapon, or lay some sort of trap. Unfortunately, that idea is pretty damn boring. How about they just got their asses kicked in the good and perfectly simple way? One thing to think about though- if the Necrons got their asses kicked in this sector, why did they build a tomb world? Is this like the computer game Worms, where everyone conveniently dig their own grave before dying? No. So if the Eldar were fighting the Necrons here, how did the Necrons build a tombworld without the Eldar bombing it to atoms shortly thereafter? Since we're mentioning the Necrons, what about the Old Ones? Are there any remnants of their civilisation either in terms of another 'young race' or even ancient artefacts which are designed to prevent the Necrons from waking? *cough*Aoideans*cough* What!? Who said that!? Erm, anyways, wouldn't traces of the Old Ones mean that we'd have artefacts of extremely high value strewn about the sector? As for ancient artefacts, I thought the Infernatum idea by... erm... *cough* was pretty good.
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Post by zholud on Jan 3, 2004 8:15:11 GMT -5
My personal idea is that for now we should not have any OO around, simply because sector already became a little bit crowded with Orks, Eldar, Kroot, Necrons (even in tombs), Hrud, and, of course, Aoideans. Maybe at the later date we introduce them, but not ATM.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jan 3, 2004 13:54:33 GMT -5
Will we actually be telling this story on our website, or is this just for our ourselves, to make it easier writing the history of Anargo? Yep, it is mostly for ourselves and by way of back story. Remember that the idea was not to produce something that was exclusively from the Imperial perspective. That the Imperium or even the eldar might not know of any, or at least some in the latter case, is not surprising. Really? I thought you'd decided to put Tir'Asur away from the centre, and have a second, smaller colony in the centre. Or was it the craftworld that would be away from the centre? Or was the craftworld not supposed to visit these parts very often...? Hmmm.. Not that I recall. There is only one colony and no craftworld is present. One thing to think about though- if the Necrons got their asses kicked in this sector, why did they build a tomb world? The obvious suggestion is the staged retreat, i.e. ordered retreat, the contruction of 'defences' as one went until the cost for any further action against them was too great. So if the Eldar were fighting the Necrons here, how did the Necrons build a tombworld without the Eldar bombing it to atoms shortly thereafter? And that is a good question. Let me expand it somewhat. What was to stop them doing this to other tombworlds? Erm, anyways, wouldn't traces of the Old Ones mean that we'd have artefacts of extremely high value strewn about the sector? Not quite what I was thinking... but the Old Slaan *cough* Old Ones are still out there and to put them as a balwark agains the Necrons wouldn't be too far a stretch. It's not that we would have to make much of them. More a kind of nod of respect in terms of 'fluff', as it were. As for ancient artefacts, I thought the Infernatum idea by... erm... *cough* was pretty good. Unfortunately since there is no information other than that they exist at the moment I cannot agree. With more information then, yes, perhaps they would be a good example. My personal idea is that for now we should not have any OO around, simply because sector already became a little bit crowded with Orks, Eldar, Kroot, Necrons (even in tombs), Hrud, and, of course, Aoideans. [/b][/quote] Hrud? Kroot? The Kroot have been mentioned, but not the Hrud. I'm not even entirely sure what they are (other than Skaven rip-off) and whether it would be appropriate to think about them in the context of the Anargo sector. We should not necessarily limit the number of alien races given the porosity of the Imperium, more especially if you (that is the generic 'you', the reader) believe in the Dark Millennia approach. Remember, of course and as above, that the Imperium is not necessarily going to know about them. They are just going to be 'out there'... The number of races with an interstellar impact should, of course, be carefully monitored but we sould not automatically say 'no'... Kage
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Post by malika on Feb 2, 2004 7:36:11 GMT -5
about the hrud, you can just put them in the fluff, but in small notices like "the [instert name]IG regiment of [insert name] world fought of one of the hrud migration.
Im curious to see where this necron thing is going...I like the idea of the elder colony being a guarding station after the war, but over time the eldar forgot about guarding the necrons (with their decadent stuff and all) and now they are trying to "rebuild" their colony to a guarding station again.....something like that?
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 4, 2004 19:40:02 GMT -5
If someone would offer even a half-decent attempt at a description of the Hrud, I would be keen on it. But as an alien race they would have to be something a bit different... But this is not the place for it. Kage
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Post by malika on Mar 6, 2004 7:31:36 GMT -5
Let's keep the hrud out for now, untill GW would give us more info about them..
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Post by Kage2020 on Mar 8, 2004 9:39:38 GMT -5
I think that is reason enough to include them! Kage
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Post by malika on Mar 8, 2004 10:05:48 GMT -5
make our own version of the Hrud you mean?
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Post by zholud on Mar 8, 2004 11:35:32 GMT -5
make our own version of the Hrud you mean? I guess yes, especially that we know a thing or two about them, as well as about Skaven which still to a very little bit are the source of influence. I have some ideas on them I once tried to compile in the version of Index Xenos: Hrud made by me, so I can drop the ideas I come up with.
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Post by malika on Mar 8, 2004 12:11:39 GMT -5
I think we should move this discussion to the Other Races Forum...because this one is about Necrons.
But erm, there are some threads on portent about the Hrud, I could post them here
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Post by Destecado on Apr 22, 2004 12:24:28 GMT -5
Just some thoughts on the relationship between the Necrontyr and the C'tan. The post below is derived from a conversation about what may lie at the center of the sector and possible Necron or c'tan involvement. It looks at some of the fluff that exists about the Necrons along with a new interpretation of what might have actually occured. Let me know what you think.
As old as the stars themselves, sentient beings were born within the roiling energy of massive stars. These would in later millennia be known and feared as the C'tan gods. These beings lived off the energy of newly born stars, completely ignorant of the cooler planetary systems forming around them and the sentient beings beginning to flourish. The earliest of the sentient beings who mastered star travel were the Slaan.
I know you are not fond of the stellar nursery idea.....and I'm not going to say that the should be one in the heart of the sector at this time. That said, I think we may want to consider the possibility of one having existed here at a time prior to the war in heaven.
From reading the above, it struck me that the nacent C'tan may have been creatures created out of the swirling gasses and constantly changing magnetic and gravitational forces inherrant inside of stellar nurseries or nebula.
The above seems to indicate that they existed prior to the Old Ones and even prior to the dust and gases within the accretion disks of stellar bodies forming into planets. they were perhaps the first "sentient" beings that existed in the newly formed universe.
The Necrontyr was born in a terrible star system. Constantly bombarded by their ultra radiant star, they had but a very short life and all their energy was focused in to scientific achievements aimed at survival. As they came in to contact with the Old Ones, the longevity nearing on near immortality and mastery of the universe the latter displayed resulted in terrible and vengeful conflict. Despite the scientifically advanced nature of the Necrontyr, they were consistently outmaneuvered by the old ones who used their warp portals and understanding of the universe to dramatic effect. The Necrontyr were pushed back to their system. It was then that the Necrontyr somehow tapped the potential of the sentient beings within the stars, awakening what would eventually be the truly awesome might of the C'tan Gods.
These beings provided the Necrontyr with terrible weapons of war and as a final gift harvested the entire population in to automatons, giving them the immortality they had so dearly sought. The entire Necrontyr civilization then became necrons, the mechanical slaves of the C'tan gods.
IMO the above information is open to wide interpretation. Personally I do not feel that it was the C'tan that enslaved the Necrontyr, but that the rulers of the Necrontyr used the C'tan as a means to enslave their poeple and bring them more under their control.
Little has been said about the religion of the Necronty, but imagine if the high priest of their religion was able to say that the star that caused them to die so you was due to the anger of their gods and then he was able to produce an actual stellar being who descended among the people. These "living" gods would give the people something to rally around, to motivate them, to mobilize them and take that big step to full conversion into machines.
What did the C'tan get out of it? Continued existance. Inprisonment in the Necrodermis appears to have cut them off from their ability to feed on stars. They instead would have to make due with the energy from souls or other sources. this allowed the Necrontyr "priests" to control the gods and also use them as a weapon against their enemies.
Maybe the C'tan got out of hand or were able to throw of the yoke of the priests and in revenge, sucked down the souls of the Necrontyr and made them their slaves. They needed them in order to track down more sustinence and war amongst themselves.
Armed with terrible weapons of war and supported by their inhumane gods, the Necrons now took the battle back to the Old Ones. Hundreds upon hundreds of civilizations nurtured by the Old Ones became fodder for the C'tan gods as billions were culled without mercy. The essence of life becoming a much sought after morsel amongst those terrible gods. It was around this time that the C'tan Gods turned amongst each other, consuming one another with hated passion until only four were left.
Life in the galaxy was still young and had not spread far f at all from its home systems. This would mean that it life or souls were a finit commodity. My thoughts are that perhaps the C'tan fought amongst themselves in the Anargo Sector, with the fictor moving on while the loser exploded into a supernova with the utter destruction of its Necrodermis.
If you prefer, perhaps it was a previously undiscovered C'tan still in its true form that was attacked by either the forces of the Old Ones, afraid that it would be found by the Necrontyr or maybe another C'tan attacking it. Either way, the resulting explosion would have been catostrophic (several times the magnitude of the normal supernovas that occur in a stellar nursery. It would probably have blown away a good portion of the gases or consumed the free hydrogen in the explosion. What are your thoughts?
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Post by ZoomDog on May 4, 2004 1:44:24 GMT -5
What happened in the War in Heaven? We seem to have 'agreed' that in this place the Necrons got their noses bloodied (or would that be oiled ), but in what way? How about this. As the C'Tan were trying to eat each other, the Old Ones were developing new races to fight them, including the Eldar. At some point they must've had a 'testing ground', where they threw the Eldar against the Necrons for the first time. We know that when this happened, the Necrons were smashed, too involved in fighting each other at the time. Why not make that area the Anargo Sector? I'm not sure about Eldar culture, but maybe that makes the area a sort of 'cultural' site, the area where they first fought and defeated their great enemy? (or one of their great enemies anyway, the Eldar seem to annoy a lot of races ). One thing to think about though- if the Necrons got their asses kicked in this sector, why did they build a tomb world? I'd say the Tomb was already there. I've always imagined that the Tomb Worlds were Necron fortresses, created after the Transferrence and during the War in Heaven, not just built as stasis shelters for their long sleep. It's possible that when the Eldar/Old Ones attacked the sector, they smashed every Tomb World they found, but missed this one. It was only after the C'Tan entered their stasis that they found it, and they left it alone in fear of awakening the Star Gods.
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