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Post by Kage2020 on May 17, 2004 19:27:10 GMT -5
And how would people feel about a joint venture between a combination of the Phoenix Clan of Alatoic and the Dragon Clan of Biel-Tan? I'm wary about Biel-Tan if only for the overt militarism evidenced in the 'fluff', a feature compounded by the dominance of the Dragon Clan in the Clan Council and, as a result, that of the Court of the Young King... It might be as simple as food shipments, supplies and equipment, political or social training for the people, stuff like that. I've never seen an eldar colony which is reasonably developed (i.e. past the first few hundred years) to have any real material requirements and, indeed, to have a surplus for return to the craftworld... depending on that craftworld's requirements, of course. Indeed, 'colony' is a bit of a misnomer in that regard. One must presume that you see things differently? The plan is at some point to allow significant expansion of Tir'asur on a war-standing, although that is entirely dependent upon the nature of previous wargame and RPG campaigns. (At present I plan for even the campaigns to be dendritic in origin, leading to different events, etc. But that's kind of obvious so hardly worth saying...) Kage
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 17, 2004 19:30:40 GMT -5
I have a question. What exactly is Tir'asur? I read the thread, and I'm not exactly sure if it's the name of our colony or the Eldar splinter group who want their race great again...
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Post by Kage2020 on May 17, 2004 19:51:23 GMT -5
LOL... Now there's a strange post! But to very quickly address the question: Tir'asur - roughly translated through bastardisation of gaelic and 'eldar' - would be "Land of the Phoenix", or "The Promise of Return" or "The Return of Old Ways", depending on how you read the runic combination of eldar script. Regardless of sponsoring craftworld(s) it is a colony world set up through the interests of specific Clans, most particularly the Phoenix Clan (hence the name), but also has interests on a number of other Clans. It is also an active participant in the socio--political interests of the 'home craftworld(s)', with a fully-developed version of it's own Clan and Seer Councils. The question to the Ancestor Council is debateable (but the world definitely does have it's own version of an Infinity Circuit/World Spirit). So it is not a 'splinter group', but rather a viable and interacting part of craftworld eldar society. As you might guess, I'm not overtly into creating separate reasons for having a different 'presence' or 'feel' to the eldar... Kage
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Post by TheGlyphstone on May 17, 2004 20:06:40 GMT -5
Okay, thanks. So it's our ASP colony. I think. Or is it both? Minus the "splinter group" of course. Actually, I shouldn't have said "splinter group". "Faction" would have been more appropriate.
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Post by Kage2020 on May 18, 2004 9:41:50 GMT -5
Okay, thanks. So it's our ASP colony. I think. Erm, yes. That's evident if you read through the thread. Tir'asur is, for the most part, the singular presence of the eldar in the Anargo sector. Or, rather, the singular major presence if one discludes the odd dark eldar raid and, perhaps, an Exodite world... (Still not sure about the latter, but there we go. No-one has suggested an overt interest in it and the population would ultimately be, or potentially so, lower than Tir'asur anyway...) Or is it both? Minus the "splinter group" of course. Not sure what you're on about here... you're going to have to expand upon the question. The colony is not a splinter group, but rather an active part of eldar society... Actually, I shouldn't have said "splinter group". "Faction" would have been more appropriate. The fact that it involves Clans automatically suggests 'factions' or, rather, interest groups... Perhaps take a quick minute or two to scan through some of the other threads since much of what you're asking is currently discussed there... Kage
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Post by Culeagh on May 21, 2004 5:52:54 GMT -5
Sorry if I get ahead of things here. I feel like a diplomat and am just running with it! ;D Any alliance amongst the Eldar people is a step towards the rebirth of ancient days and I, for one, feel no animosity towards the Eldar of Alaitoc. Not knowing the specific backgrounds of the clans you have mentioned limits my ability to make a subjective response, however. I realise that Biel Tan has a certain reputation and it is all very true! But, certainly there will be no violence! No Biel Tan Eldar will be hostile to any other Eldar without express orders from the Court and Council. To have such an order issued would require Tir'Asur to become a political and military enemy of Biel Tan which is something that will surely not happen as it is contrary to the goals and ambitions of all involved parties. Biel Tan seeks colonies and allies, not new enemies. We have more than enough enemies... This sector is brimming with them. We offer our sword. Perhaps I am likening Tir'Asur to an Exodite world where the Eldar limit their technology base on purpose. Mostly I was trying to get away from the obvious military goals and ambitions of Biel Tan and show that they can and do offer more than a well built grav-tank. So then, Tir'Asur is reasonably well developed and does not require simple things. Good. Many other more advanced services and goods can be offered in trade for surplus. As you know Biel Tan has a vast array of Paths and Ways on which the young and old of Tir'Asur can train. Once again, this needs to not be upon the Path of the Warrior, though we excel at that. And if war calls... Biel Tan can answer for you. In many different ways. But enough of the wargaming, what can Biel Tan offer Tir'Asur? Happy Hunting
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Post by Kage2020 on May 21, 2004 8:09:38 GMT -5
Sorry if I get ahead of things here. I feel like a diplomat and am just running with it! Pardon? Not knowing the specific backgrounds of the clans you have mentioned limits my ability to make a subjective response, however. .. Clans are discussed elsewhere in this forum (i.e. "Eldar Government"). Both Clans are 'returnists', seeking the rise of the eldar as a galactic power once again. The Dragon are somewhat aggressive in this return, hence part of the reason that Biel-Tan has such an aggressive stance (the Dragon Clan holding significant sway over the Clan Council of Biel-Tan). Again, the Phoenix Clan would have opened up the world to colonisation... the specific motivation for a multi-craftworld colony is, however, up for grabs. I realise that Biel Tan has a certain reputation and it is all very true! But, certainly there will be no violence! Erm, that's self-evident. It always worries me when people flavour their responses with 'RP' aspects... Perhaps I am likening Tir'Asur to an Exodite world where the Eldar limit their technology base on purpose. Perhaps you are. You would, however, be incorrect with Tir'asur. It is a craftworld colony with all the trimmings.. Mostly I was trying to get away from the obvious military goals and ambitions of Biel Tan and show that they can and do offer more than a well built grav-tank. LOL. Yes, well... The specific plans of Biel-Tan, if I go with this idea, are all up for debate. Suggest an idea, but you also have to remember other concepts from other threads (i.e. Heart of Anargo for one). So then, Tir'Asur is reasonably well developed and does not require simple things. Good. Many other more advanced services and goods can be offered in trade for surplus. You misunderstand... But maybe I should tackle this a separate way. What do you see as a potential commodity that the colony would require? As you know Biel Tan has a vast array of Paths and Ways on which the young and old of Tir'Asur can train. Erm, the Eldar Path will be functional on Tir'asur. That is the nature of the Path, after all. Kage
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 5, 2004 4:56:50 GMT -5
Note also the presence of a craftworld, potentially at least, in the Vallidus sector adjacent to Anargo. Perhaps it may be best to go for a 'fan craftworld' as the major founder of the craftworld? (For a description of the sector go here.) In which case what about the use of this craftworld?
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Post by CELS on Jul 5, 2004 10:56:32 GMT -5
I'm afraid you'll need to explain that, Kage... The use of a craftworld? How do you mean?
And by "fan craftworld", I assume you mean a craftworld of our own invention. Which could be really interesting, if I could just find the time to read through the danged Eldar fluff, to check my bearings..
What I would like to see for an Eldar craftworld, is the Eldar as manipulators and deceivers. I don't want them to be as hardcore as Biel-Tan, who seem to fight anyone who gets remotely close. I'd like to see an Eldar craftworld that uses other races to fight their battles, and perhaps even other Eldar (dark eldar, for example). There might even be a history of diplomatic relations with this craftworld, and some within the Imperium might actually trust them to a certain degree, failing to see that while Imperial diplomats are sipping tea with the Eldar, this craftworld is waging a covert war with the Imperium. So, dirty, tricky Eldar, please ;D
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 5, 2004 11:37:11 GMT -5
I'm afraid you'll need to explain that, Kage... The use of a craftworld? How do you mean? As from the rest of the thread, this refers to the 'founding' craftworld for the colony. And by "fan craftworld", I assume you mean a craftworld of our own invention. Yes, otherwise it would be one of the GW-named places... What I would like to see for an Eldar craftworld, is the Eldar as manipulators and deceivers. Ah, the joys of the Spider Clan... There might even be a history of diplomatic relations with this craftworld... Potentially... I'm not paying too much attention to the craftworld at the moment and thought that someone else might want to take up their construction... So, dirty, tricky Eldar, please ;D There are any other kind? This race doesn't even see humans as anything but the basest of animals!
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Post by CELS on Jul 5, 2004 12:44:01 GMT -5
Ah, the joys of the Spider Clan... Right! Is there anything about the Clans that can't be found in the Eldar forum, by the way? I'm definitely interested in helping out, but I'm going to work a bit more on the orks first. Create a couple of ork worlds. Should be rather fun. Well, for world-building ;D Well, I imagine there are more honourable types of the Eldar, who disdain such trickery and falseness, and rather just refuse to talk with any mon'keigh. They're somewhere between a cockroach and that white stuff that accumulates in the corner of your mouth when you're thirsty, after all Even pretending to be helping them could be considered a fantastic dishonour for some Eldar, I imagine. On a personal note; sorry for disappearing like that tonight. You were just going offline every other minute, so I figured I'd get a snack while you figured things out.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 8, 2004 3:53:19 GMT -5
Right! Is there anything about the Clans that can't be found in the Eldar forum, by the way? Probably lots. They are, after all, just in their conceptual stage. I was hoping to get into their motivations, etc., in the "Eldar Sourcebook" but that's on firm footing but lacking time (it seems that LordFenric and I share something in common: three months to write up a PhD). Sigh. I do, however, intend to make a start on Tir'asur before then. The world that is currently up for offer in World Building hasn't been jumped on so I'm going to go with my original premise and just take it myself. It's just too good an opportunity to miss! I'm definitely interested in helping out, but I'm going to work a bit more on the orks first. Create a couple of ork worlds. <snicker> I was tempted on doing that myself, but then realised it wasn't quite my thang... I'd be more for the Castellan side of things. Well, I imagine there are more honourable types of the Eldar, who disdain such trickery and falseness, and rather just refuse to talk with any mon'keigh. Oh, I would imagine that there are definitely eldar who refuse to talk to the breeders. Same as you get humans who aren't willing to go "coochy coo" to young animals or babies... They're somewhere between a cockroach and that white stuff that accumulates in the corner of your mouth when you're thirsty... Gotta love Con-Air and Cyrus the Virus. Even pretending to be helping them could be considered a fantastic dishonour for some Eldar, I imagine. Depends on what you mean 'dishonour'. It might be considered by some 'taboo' or 'unclean', but... ah well, guess it just depends on how you describe them. On a personal note; sorry for disappearing like that tonight. You were just going offline every other minute, so I figured I'd get a snack while you figured things out. [/size][/quote] No worries...
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Post by CaptainStuart on Jul 16, 2004 14:01:30 GMT -5
I'm jumping in head first here, having skimmed a few other related threads.
Do you see Tir'asur as dominated by Phoenix and Dragon clans? Because that seems logical to me. A focus on practical technology would be how I would try to return to glory. As you said, a highly technological colony with a surplus of exports would be a boon for those clans, moreso than a Spider approach.
As for the patron Craftworld I think Biel Tan is the most appropriate. I understand the reservations, but shipping equipment would be an appropriate role, wouldn't it? I prefer a homemade Craftworld (dominated by an un-Eldar-like emphasis on scientific research) be the sponsor, but I am not comfortable expounding further on that in this thread.
Is it too late to ignore the noob?
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Post by CELS on Jul 16, 2004 15:01:23 GMT -5
I'm jumping in head first here, having skimmed a few other related threads. Great! Welcome to the ASP, Captain Stuart. I'll try to be gentle.. But the Spider approach is so much more fun! And appropriate, considering that Kage prefers these Eldar to be the quiet type who don't generally go killing anyone who come too close to violating their maiden worlds or whatever. And that would be Dragon clan. It would be more like the Spider clan to sit back, hang in the shadows, and manipulate others into doing their will, so open conflict is avoided. Please do! IIRC, Kage has expressed great displeasure with the Biel Tan craftworld, or at least expressed reluctance to use it for Tir'asur. Erm... what do you mean...?
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Post by CaptainStuart on Jul 17, 2004 6:20:33 GMT -5
I think there is way too much emphasis on the Biel Tan as being go-out-of-their-way-to-be-mean on the military side. I think by playing up military aspects within technology-focused programs is totally appropriate. When you see a sci fi movie, who is in it? Military and scientists. One needs research and tests it in a methodical, efficient system. The other provides the research.
IIRC, it was Kage who said the founding date was significant for a possible role within the EoT campaign. I don't see that as necessarily providing troops. But I can see a technologically bent colony developing experimental weapons, drugs, and detection systems for what may be seen by the Seers as an upcoming conflict. These things don't even need to be large things within the context of the setting. I'm thinking something like making equipment lighter, extending range on the shuriken catapult, developing ECM systems etc etc. These may be incremental development, but I dislike the idea that the Eldar quit developing technology so long ago. Heck, maybe they rediscover the Slicing Orbs and found a new Aspect in a few generations?
The Biel Tan offer an instant means of providing experimental data on item's effectiveness and the like. Wholescale Falcon factories aren't needed, but perhaps there's a program to redevelop the Falcon's tracking system or one to improve the Infinity Circuit interface.
I don't like the Spider motif for two reasons: 1. as another poster pointed out, there's several "sneaky" factions already. 2. I don't see too much sneaky about trade. I realize I am speaking very strongly of the trade element, but I think it would be a central element of th ecolony's existence. With a Craftworld relatively nearby I'm not sure the colony would be completely secret, but I am differing from the ASP point of view here. With the Spider clan dominant there wold be no means of testing these things. With the Biel Tan such testing could occur surreptiously.
As for the driving force that I would like to see you need to look to the Ancestor Council. It's a pigeonhole within the Eldar Council concept. I'd like to see an emphasis on more logical, rational and scientific approach. Think of Star Trek Vulcans without the total emphasis on logic and pop references of Theraveda Buddhism. A path where the Eldar emotions are dealt with by logic and detachment. Of course, such a place would have more reliance on the Infiinty Circuit for things, but would that be bad?
Hope this helps.
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