|
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 1, 2004 15:06:14 GMT -5
Well of course they got the time but the question is if they doesn't have something else they have/want to do? Not everything is about efficiency. Indeed, if one were to give an amazingly pretentious answer (but one that I still kinda love) then one would point out that efficiency was so important to the eldar it would be called the Eldar Destination, not the Eldar Path... It's a bit wasteful where they can 'invent' an easier way. A lot of people can do things easier, but they chose to do it a more difficult way... Consider DIY as an example of this: the easy way is to pay, the hard way to do it yourself., Okay, tongue in the cheek example to couple with the above one but ah well... My brain has been frazzled after 13 hours in the library looking through history books on two sites and realising that I didn't quite think that it would take that long to get through one third of what I needed to... Of course we could have both. One needs 'training' and dedication, a mark of the dedicate. Good for clan tattoos and aspect/path tattoos. Or same technology, different way of achieving it? A password protected wasteland? ;D <grin> The git of it is is that as soon as I posted the board up I ran out of time and had to get a chapter of my thesis in (on Monday, in fact and it's not even fully researched yet!)... Over the next few months more members to the board will be added (including the Mods) based upon their contribution to other aspects of the project and, more specifically, for contribution to the eldar side of things. Of course, it could just fall on it's face... Clicky on the linky 'cause da base is pretty much done. When you said that you didn't do 'clean' images, I was worried. But that looks like a wonderful base. Are you going to add hair, etc.? I know the standard is to de-personalise images of this type by removing eyes, hair etc. (I'm reminded of the horrendously and nearly pointless tast of racial reconstructions in forensic science) but I would prefer to have it personalised... Then again, would this be the type of thing to be added on subsequently? But yes, I really quite like that picture. How is your hand, arm, leg and torso drawing? Some standard projections of those to that quality would be useful. Kage
|
|
|
Post by Skabbhatt on Apr 2, 2004 17:08:22 GMT -5
Indeed not everything is, but some things are about efficiency. But I just get this feeling that eldar just have better things to do, such as spending time with their love ones, taking that trip to the mountains etc. then meditate on their tattoos just to change them. But that's just my feeling. Weeel... I'm not going to add anything to that picture, but as I draw to tattoos I could personalise them fairly easy, or very easy. But it wouldn't be very personal if all pictures had the same hair, eyes... Well, I could try. But don't expect any hand... they are my nemesis. CURSE them... Glad you liked the it. I'm posting a bad quality thumb of it here.
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 3, 2004 8:55:59 GMT -5
Indeed not everything is, but some things are about efficiency. But I just get this feeling that eldar just have better things to do, such as spending time with their love ones, taking that trip to the mountains etc. then meditate on their tattoos just to change them. But that's just my feeling. Oh, they can do that as well... Hundreds and hundreds of years gives you the time to do quite a bit! It's not as if, like humans, they sleep for a third of their life! Kage
|
|
|
Post by Skabbhatt on Apr 3, 2004 11:51:38 GMT -5
But just because they have more time then a human does not mean they doesn't want more time...
Life ends for them too, and there was probably a million thing they wanted to do before the candle went out.
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 3, 2004 15:54:18 GMT -5
All true... But I'm also not going to remove the image, though I would offer that perhaps it is not quite as common as I seem to have been suggesting. Remembering, of course, that a change of Clan is sometimes present only at a change of Path, the kind of significant event at which you would want to 'waste the time' determining what you really wanted to do... Or something! Kage
|
|
|
Post by Destecado on Apr 12, 2004 14:54:15 GMT -5
With reguards to tatoos, have you considered the possibility of a retro virus or other bio organic delivery system for the tatoos to be deliverd. The eldars information about physiology and other sciences are far advanced to those of humans. I'm also sure that many of you may remember the birthmarks on the head of former soviet president Gorbachev.
could not the eldar create a dna that would cause this kind of coloration to occur in specific patterns? If it is tied to bio chemistry, the "tatoo" might change with changes in the persons physiology. Birthmarks and skin color comes in several shades, by modifiying the virus , you could also vary the colors and density of the pattern.
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 12, 2004 18:29:07 GMT -5
Yes, they could... but are you not talking a germ-line thing here? In which case birth pre-determines Clan, which defeats the point of their concept. With that said then, yes, it is a possible if somewhat invasive means of achieving the tattoo... Actually, almost anything that they do is going to invasive, so that's a bit of a daft thing to say! Hmmn, I was then going to suggest that something that involved altering the genetic structure of the individual would be considered 'bad', but I think that the eldar took a hand in their genetic evolution a while back anyway (too many good things operating at once). For some reason I'm drawn to the 'hard technology', but this 'soft technology' does appeal since it would become a volitional thing. It's just that at the moment I'm getting imagery of 'eldar squid'... Kage
|
|
|
Post by Destecado on Apr 15, 2004 13:22:57 GMT -5
Yes, they could... but are you not talking a germ-line thing here? In which case birth pre-determines Clan, which defeats the point of their concept. With that said then, yes, it is a possible if somewhat invasive means of achieving the tattoo... Actually, almost anything that they do is going to invasive, so that's a bit of a daft thing to say! Hmmn, I was then going to suggest that something that involved altering the genetic structure of the individual would be considered 'bad', but I think that the eldar took a hand in their genetic evolution a while back anyway (too many good things operating at once). For some reason I'm drawn to the 'hard technology', but this 'soft technology' does appeal since it would become a volitional thing. It's just that at the moment I'm getting imagery of 'eldar squid'... Not sure what you mean by Eldar Squid, but this may also serve other purposes. You could include a bioluminescent quality to the DNA strand making the tatoos glow with their own light. If you wish a less invasive approach to resequnecing the DNA, you could perhaps do it as skin grafts or a tailored animal that grafts onto the skin of the eldar it molds to the skin actually becoming part of the eldar's dermis. the feelers the it sends out into the surrounding tissue create the patterns of the tatoo. Bio luminescent tatoos that glow with different colors depending on the clan would be an interesting spectacle. Each tatoo would also be uniquie unless you tailor a specific patter to make them grow. You could also possibly manipulate its growth, effecting the final pattern in the manner that one shapes a bonsai tree. Rather than prunning slight electrical stimulation of the growing strands with stop them from growing in a certain direction while abblication of substances the symbiot finds tasty makes them grow into a given area. This keeps the idea of the tatoo artist, but with a new twist.
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 15, 2004 17:26:00 GMT -5
Hmmn... all of which are possible. And unusually for me I'm more concerned with the imagery rather than the specifics of the technology at present. Do you have any extensions on the imagery, Destecado? Perhaps some ideas for Clans themselves? Kage
|
|
|
Post by Destecado on Apr 15, 2004 17:59:48 GMT -5
Is it possible to give me an idea of what you are looking for in the way of clans? I think I remember someone saying sothing about fire and water. Are the clans going to be broken up by the 4 elements or was there another system that you wish it to represent? If I have a better understanding of what concept these clans are working under, I'll be able to give you a more detailed answer.
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 15, 2004 18:23:05 GMT -5
Clans are interest groups... They represent the desires of eldar to achieve certain goals. Thus, in a limited example, the Phoenix Clan wish a rebirth of the eldar... The Dragon Clan wish the same, but through material conquest. The Spider Clan aim at manipulation, etc... Kage
|
|
|
Post by Destecado on Apr 16, 2004 10:31:19 GMT -5
It sounds that what you are describing is something that is seperate and distinct from the Path that an eldar chooses to follow.
The Eldar learned another bitter lesson from the Great Fall. That it was necessary to channel the intensities of the Eldar psyche into Paths that would not lead to the hedonism and depravity that led to the creation of Slaanesh. To this end the Craftworld Eldar pledged to each follow a Way or Path, a focused way of life to channel the Eldar mind into the learning and mastery of one or more crafts. Many, many Paths exist, from the skill of Bonesinging (the art of crafting psychoactive materials into works of art and function) to the psychic honing of the Seers and the ways of war followed by the Aspect Warriors. The life of an Eldar is long indeed, and many master many Paths before their soul joins their ancestors in the Craftworlds Wraithbone core.
They way you have described clans, they sound more like a religious or spiritual group that the eldar belong to. Actually religion is a misleading term. They should instead represent different phylosophical view points on how one can reach enlightenment or how one should live their lives.
You would have those that ascribe to something akin to the gnostic ideal, while others might describe to something more akin to the philosophy of aristotle or hegel. Is this what you had in mind or am I way off base?
|
|
|
Post by Kage2020 on Apr 16, 2004 11:39:41 GMT -5
It sounds that what you are describing is something that is seperate and distinct from the Path that an eldar chooses to follow. There is actually a separate thread for this discussion but I'll continue it here at the moment... The "Clan" is an interest group, a formalisation of specific socioal/political approaches to the eldar and their position within the galaxy. Thus the "Phoenix Clan", for example, is composed of those individuals that wish to see the eldar return to a position of prominence; a rebirth of their empire, if you will. (Incidentally, Tir'asur was initially formed by members of this Clan, though from two separate craftworlds... or at least that's what I'm working with at the moment.) Clan is an assumed position, one based upon personal philosophy at any given time. As such it can vary depending on various phenomenon including, most importantly, their journey on the Path. They way you have described clans, they sound more like a religious or spiritual group that the eldar belong to. No, no no... An eldar belongs to one Clan at a time and can remain with that Clan (if their personal philosophy doesn't change) or can move through many Clans. I'm actually in the midst of arguing against someone who is suggesting that a "psychic aura" creates a sense of belonging to these Clans. I see the choice of Clan tied into the concept of the assumption of 'personal responsibility' by the eldar. It has nothing about the creation of a 'pseudo-family' in absence of their own... They should instead represent different phylosophical view points on how one can reach enlightenment or how one should live their lives. The Path itself is the 'journey to enlightenment'; it isn't required as a part of the Clans themselves. Is this what you had in mind or am I way off base? By the sounds of it, way off base... If we are to continue this, however, then perhaps take a look at the "Eldar Clans" thread... Kage
|
|
|
Post by Destecado on Apr 16, 2004 15:18:33 GMT -5
Is it possible to give me a link to this thread? I'm not able to locate it. Is it on Portent rather than in this forum?
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Apr 16, 2004 17:59:53 GMT -5
|
|