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Post by CELS on Apr 5, 2004 15:36:56 GMT -5
Right.
So what do you people suggest? Kage, Rogue Trader, Minister, Tynesh? Now that we've established that the Ordo Malleus isn't what it once was, what would you like to do about it? Do we ignore the old fluff and stick with the new Ordo Malleus, or do we try to incorporate the old with the new? If the latter, then how would you like to see it done?
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Post by Rogue Trader on Apr 5, 2004 15:59:32 GMT -5
Well, I know that Kage wasn't willing to but I'm all for having the Ordo Malleus as it used to be...
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Post by Minister on Apr 5, 2004 16:41:48 GMT -5
Nyernghmergh... ;D + Inquisitor's note to self + Remember to monitor Minister for possible touch of Chaos....
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Post by CELS on Apr 5, 2004 16:41:57 GMT -5
And if, hypothetically, Kage still isn't willing, and if I, hypothetically, was asking for a constructive idea.... what would you suggest?
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Post by Tynesh on Apr 6, 2004 9:02:59 GMT -5
How about.....
...the threat posed by daemons and chaos in the sector is so small no =][= can be bothered with being in the Ordo Malleus and decide that Xenos and Hereticus are where the fun is and...
BANG!
Or maybe we should have a small group of =][= concerned with protecting anargo against chaos in its many forms, maybe leading a expedition into the cursed sub-sector. Hereticus can spend lots of time destroying cults (who are really chaos centred). A smaller opposing faction could provide a more radical side to the daemonhunters. But not too crazy, no daemonhosts but, psychers etc.
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Post by Minister on Apr 6, 2004 16:09:54 GMT -5
How about... Master of the Ordos Anargo
Three Inquisitor Lords, one for each major Ordo. The Maleus is the least numerous in this sector, due to its positioning well away from the Eye and so-on, and is therefore less prevelant.
An number of "normal" Inquisitors, split roughly 20-35-35-10 into unafiliated-Hereticus-Xenos-Maleus.
A number, perhaps ten times that of Inquisitors, perhaps only two or three, of Noviates, Explicators, Interogators and other would-be Inquisitors.
A much larger number of troops, savants, scribes and so-on and so forth acting in support, concentrated at the various Inquisition facilities but also placed in various other positions to watch over the sector.
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Post by Tynesh on Apr 8, 2004 6:21:04 GMT -5
Yup seems fairly doable!
Just my takes on Ministers ideas
Master of Ordo Anargo - chosen most commonly from Xenos or Hereticus as these are the most active ordos in the sector. Not ruling out a Malleus Master though
Inquisitor Lords - All of equal standing. Fairly old as well. Malleus Lord possibly neutral in a factional standpoint. Xenos Lords would nice a rabid Monodominant strongly against any aliens of anykind. Hereticus Lord might be good as an Amalthian, bit different from the picture painted in Witch hunters, wants to retain order and remove dissenters more silently (Cough assassins Cough)
Any idea on the numbers of =][= in the sector, this shhould be noted and not CLASSIFIED - =][= UNAUTHORISED CLEARANCE etc.
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 8, 2004 7:22:06 GMT -5
Minister's idea, while I approve, doesn't seem to fit with the general impression I get from most posters.
I am firm in my belief that no Inquisitor HAS to belong to any Ordo at all, but a lot of fluffnuts don't seem to think so.
I am also in favour of the general trend that only the seriously hardcore Inquisitors are members of the Ordos, while the 'mundane' sort have much less exciting jobs, generally along the lines of secret agent, inspector or 'shady' official.
Of course, every Inquisitor is expected to do whatever is necessary to protect the Imperium or die in the attempt. It's just that the Ordos, who deal with the very serious threats, would go to colleagues of that Ordo first, then to the most senior other Inquisitors, then to the Inquisition at large.
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Post by CELS on Apr 8, 2004 7:54:56 GMT -5
How about..... ...the threat posed by daemons and chaos in the sector is so small no =][= can be bothered with being in the Ordo Malleus and decide that Xenos and Hereticus are where the fun is and... BANG!Thank you ;D Or maybe we should have a small group of =][= concerned with protecting anargo against chaos in its many forms, maybe leading a expedition into the cursed sub-sector. Hereticus can spend lots of time destroying cults (who are really chaos centred). A smaller opposing faction could provide a more radical side to the daemonhunters. But not too crazy, no daemonhosts but, psychers etc. This is quite possible, and could be interesting. Feel free to invent such a cell or even small Ordo... How about... Master of the Ordos Anargo Three Inquisitor Lords, one for each major Ordo. The Maleus is the least numerous in this sector, due to its positioning well away from the Eye and so-on, and is therefore less prevelant. Sounds reasonable. But do you see the Master being a leader for all Ordos in Anargo, or a seperate Order, known as the Ordo Anargo? IIRC, there was a master of the Ordo Helican in the Eisenhorn novels. Or was it Ordos...? An number of "normal" Inquisitors, split roughly 20-35-35-10 into unafiliated-Hereticus-Xenos-Maleus. Again, this sounds reasonable. Unless of course you count local Ordos as unafiliated. A number, perhaps ten times that of Inquisitors, perhaps only two or three, of Noviates, Explicators, Interogators and other would-be Inquisitors. I think no effort should be made to estimate the number of Inquisitors in Anargo, since we lack the knowledge to make an educated guess, and since it rather limits our options. "Sorry kid, no room for your Inquisitor in this sector. We've already got ten Ordo Malleus Inquisitors, so we're all stacked up" A much larger number of troops, savants, scribes and so-on and so forth acting in support, concentrated at the various Inquisition facilities but also placed in various other positions to watch over the sector. Not to mention Inquisitorial Stormtroopers!! Hoo-ya! Master of Ordo Anargo - chosen most commonly from Xenos or Hereticus as these are the most active ordos in the sector. Not ruling out a Malleus Master though What about local Ordos? Would he have to be member of the Ordo Xenos, or could he also be a member of the local xenos-orientated Ordo Orkicus ( )? Inquisitor Lords - All of equal standing. Fairly old as well. Malleus Lord possibly neutral in a factional standpoint. Nobody's neutral I'd say he'd almost certainly be a conservative puritan, since they outnumber the radicals by a lot. Xenos Lords would nice a rabid Monodominant strongly against any aliens of anykind. Sounds plausible, considering the extreme presence of xenos in the Anargo sector So... now that we've got a very rough map of the structure of the Inquisition in Anargo, I guess it's appropriate to talk about how this organisation would work in practice. For example, what is the relationship between an Ordo Orkicus Inquisitor and the Ordo Xenos Lord-Inquisitor? Granted, there is no law or rules to govern the Inquisitors, but they do have a habit of burning fellow Inquisitors if they are found lacking. So how much animosity and division can we tolerate? I find it interesting that there is so much division between Inquisitors, both in philosophy and method, so I would be inclined to say that the Lord-Inquisitors have no real authority, but that it is wise to stay on their good side, unless you want to suffer the fate of a marshmellow. In the same manner, if a Ordo Malleus Lord-Inquisitor tells an Ordo Orkicus Inquisitor to cease investigation in the Ork-infestated Iron Warrior fortress, the Ordo Orkicus Inquisitor can choose to give the Lord-Inquisitor the finger, but that would mean trouble. So who watches the watchdogs? Tynesh suggested an Ordo Daemonicus, IIRC, but I think we should have an Ordo that watches all the Inquisition, and would apprehend the Istvaanian Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor just as well as a Horusian Ordo Malleus Inquisitor... Or are all Inquisitors perhaps responsible for watching eachother?
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 8, 2004 7:55:29 GMT -5
That seems more a problem of the jurisdictional problems evidenced in the 'fluff', as well as the significant powers that can be attributed to an Inquisitorial support group (I despise the term 'warband' ), than a significant feature. Indeed, it is the biggest flaw in the 'fluff' on the ordo since by their sheer nature - the ideology of the Imperium, even! - hereticus always tends to cross-over with malleus and xenos. It's one of those situations which sounds cool but when you get down to the nuts and bolts tends to fall to pieces... We are, however, left with the ordo structure and given that it is such a significant part of most peoples' 40k "knowledge-base" we cannot change the structure. Indeed, I would not want to. Thus the three ordo system (and others that they want to add in every now and again although, obviously, they cannot be secret! ) must remain. I'm not keen on having non- ordo Inquisitors nor the idea that the ordo Inquisitors are, by default, the 'serious customers' dealing with the 'serious issues'. The 'fluff' would not only seem to indicate the erroneous nature of this suggestion but, for me, it also doesn't suit the 'flavour' of the Inquisition. The latitude with the Inquisition comes as with any of the organisations of the adeptus terra: secrets. Was the "fluffy-bunny" opening up of the Inquisition to the eyes of the adeptus terra really that opening? Even if you're not talking about a significant official organisation which remained behind in the style of the old ordo malleus there is also the concept of a 'secret society' within the Inquisition which serves a similar function... (And I'm also reminded of an episode of Martial Law on the other night in which there were vigilante police officers going around assassinating those people that escaped, or got in the way of, justice.) So for me it's less about changing the structure of the Inquisition but returning a bit more shade to their existence. Keeping the paranoid structure of the original ordo malleus as much as possible... And, perhaps, putting some more information behind the jurisdictional trouble and how it would impact upon the Inquisition as well as the lives of specific Inquisitors and their duties. Kage
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Post by CELS on Apr 8, 2004 8:16:04 GMT -5
I see your point about the non-ordo Inquisitors, Kage, and now I must say I'm undecided. Perhaps they're all afiliated with the Ordo Xenos, Ordo Hereticus or Ordo Malleus, and the group of outsiders and Inquisitors of minor Ordos are generally found in the Ordo Hereticus branch....? If the Ordo Dorvastor concerns itself with all things that go on in the Dorvastor subsector, for example, they would be a subdivision of the Ordo Hereticus, since the Ordo Hereticus borders on both Xenos and Malleus as well...
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 8, 2004 9:17:03 GMT -5
I would say that all three ordo are present in the Anargo sector. Indeed, it would be inescapable... The relative importance of the ordo might vary, however. Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 8, 2004 10:12:37 GMT -5
Ever read Ian Pickstock's short story about Fist of Jade?
It follows the exploits of two Ordo Xenos Inquisitors, Hrakon and Yeurl, on an Explorator ship recovering (I believe) Necron remains. On the journey back, Yeurl is assassinated for failing his masters in the Inquisition. Face-to-face with the assassin, he cries out "I am Ordo Xenos, look!"
So we can deduce that much is expected of the Ordo Xenos, while Inquisitors are inducted into it fully-fledged. Hrakon was of sufficient calibre; Yeurl was not.
Not that this is a clear-cut line, simply a trend. Those Inquisitors forced into really big issues either become messy casualties at the hands of them or learn from them and become a formidable force in their own right. At this point, they're 'in the system' for good and the best way of getting the support needed is to be inducted into one of the Ordos.
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Post by Minister on Apr 8, 2004 16:23:14 GMT -5
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Post by Kage2020 on Apr 8, 2004 16:40:44 GMT -5
So who watches the watchdogs? Tynesh suggested an Ordo Daemonicus, IIRC, but I think we should have an Ordo that watches all the Inquisition, and would apprehend the Istvaanian Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor just as well as a Horusian Ordo Malleus Inquisitor... Or are all Inquisitors perhaps responsible for watching eachother? Last point first: they do that anyway with their own internal rivalries both within and between the ordo. First point: That is, in essence, what I've been saying from the get-go, although I called it the "Hidden Order" ( ordo obfuscus in poor latin). To extend it to a form of semi-formal 'secret society' is, however, something that I feel is now far more interesting. Not an established ordo... Inquisitor A: "I am a watcher of the watchers..." Inquisitor B: "So who watches you..." Inquisitor A: "I'm narcisstic and therefore watch myself in the mirror all the time..." Inquisitor B: "That doesn't count." Inquisitor A: "Erm... yes it does. I say so! Beware I'm of the mal...Oh bugger. No I'm not. Forget I said that... Erm..." Rather than having a tediously 'open' ordo the move to a secret 'inner circle' brings in a whole lot of possibilites that one can draw images from... (And, again, it's basically the Hidden Order once again... ) Kage
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