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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 27, 2003 10:49:47 GMT -5
In the "Battlefleet Anargo" thread on Portent (posted here as 'Anargo Classis Militares') Minister has gone to great lengths to detail the names and captains of the ships of the Military Fleet of Anargo. Sooner or later as more information becomes available he will hopefully begin to assign them to patrol duties, guard duties, etc., as required. The classis mercatorious is involved in what I prefer to call 'tithe redistribution'. Composed of Chartist Captains (normally but not exculsively ex- classis militares personnel) and in command of some of the largest non-military ships in the Imperium, their primary duty is to ensure that 'required goods' from one world get to another (i.e. food to a hiveworld)... Does anyone have any comments as the relative size of the classis mercatorious and militares? I presume that Minister would prefer to get his hands on this, but given the fact that he has not posted recently (or in fact ever on this site; not surprising over the Christmas vacation period) I thought that I would offer it out generally... Remembering, of course, that I believe the Merchant Fleet is meant to be larger than Military Fleet... I'm not sure whether this is tenable given the ASP's approach to the classis civilies (obviously Civilian Fleet) but, again, I thought that it should be thrown out there. One thing that I would also suggest is that the requirement for 'communications' in the Imperium - the physical transportation of information that cannot be carried by the faster Astropathic Network - would most likely be included as a function of the classis mercatorious... Kage
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Post by zholud on Feb 5, 2004 15:39:48 GMT -5
I would say that the ships are so different in side that comparing them is ridiculous. The estimate of the ‘grain-ships’ which should transport whole harvest from the Agriworld is around 10 km in length. In Eisenhorn the merchant ship used is 3 km in length. Smaller ships most likely exist which run between two-three systems on constant basis and are around 800 m long Agreed?
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Post by malika on Feb 5, 2004 15:56:03 GMT -5
What about security? Would these transport ships have some minor weapons of their own? Or would they be escorted by Adeptus Arbites ships or the Imperial Navy?
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Post by zholud on Feb 5, 2004 16:09:07 GMT -5
What about security? Would these transport ships have some minor weapons of their own? Or would they be escorted by Adeptus Arbites ships or the Imperial Navy? Minor weapons and internal defence – most likely. As to escorting I think it is economically wasting... but their in turn could be very interested sometimes to travel with patrol/caravan in order to be more safe...
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Post by malika on Feb 5, 2004 16:10:58 GMT -5
Well I was thinking...I mean after kinda reading through the civil fleet thread, Im curious if there are free companies in the Imperium? Maybe some security companies or something? And Arbites escorts? Well only for important cargos I assume
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Post by zholud on Feb 5, 2004 16:22:31 GMT -5
And Arbites escorts? Well only for important cargos I assume Arbites are primary planetary troops or fast-action against the constantly ‘bad places’ akin to some districts in some cities where law doesn’t work. They should not escort merchants, it’s Navy who reigns the sky
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Post by malika on Feb 5, 2004 16:25:35 GMT -5
Well the arbites also have ships to stop smugglers and all that...but Im getting appealed by security companies, maybe these people have been former guardsmen, or navy personell. That would be sweet!
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Post by CELS on Feb 5, 2004 16:29:48 GMT -5
Yep! Do you think you'll have time to work on such companies though?
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Post by malika on Feb 5, 2004 16:33:54 GMT -5
hmm, I will probably have more time next week (after the weekend) I will start on looking for information about the structures of companies in socialist states (kinda free, but still in control of the state).
I will also try to work on my planet then
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 7, 2004 9:31:11 GMT -5
I would say that the ships are so different in side that comparing them is ridiculous. The estimate of the ‘grain-ships’ which should transport whole harvest from the Agriworld is around 10 km in length. I agree that the 'merchant fleet' would be composed of 'uber-ships', again just as much symbol of the size and power of the Imperium than anything else.
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Post by zholud on Feb 7, 2004 12:28:10 GMT -5
I agree that the 'merchant fleet' would be composed of 'uber-ships', again just as much symbol of the size and power of the Imperium than anything else. I also add economy of scale in this specific case because I assume that the peak of energy spending is at the moment of warp entry/exit and it growth gradually with size/volume. The only question is whether the ship in Eisenhorn was truly a 'merchant fleet' ship or just someone that was called a 'merchant'. Remember that one of the points here is to take a stance and to differentiate between the two in a method of creating an interesting and dynamic sector that doesn't subscribe to the "Imperium does all the ships" mode of thought. Generally he is the person who can choose own routes, so he is civil fleet member under your and old GW classification. The requirement here is for axes of trade, which is going to have to obviously wait until we have some more concrete information about the worlds. Which is one of the reasons that I was hoping that people could get a basic premise list of the worlds in their subsector... This way we could begin to map these things as a 'sketch' before the specific creation of worlds altered them. Oh, I’ll add some Agriworlds next week I promise. As to the size of the ships. 800 m would be around 40,000 displacement tons or around 610,000 cubic metres... Which is big, but not too big.. I even can drop it to 650 for warp capable one, but they seems to fit into civil fleet much better.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 8, 2004 15:59:33 GMT -5
I also add economy of scale in this specific case because I assume that the peak of energy spending is at the moment of warp entry/exit and it growth gradually with size/volume. That's actually a good point and, I admit, one that I hadn't thought about. Not entirely sure whether it should argue that everything should be big, though, although I'm also not suggesting that is what you're saying. Generally he is the person who can choose own routes, so he is civil fleet member under your and old GW classification. Yep, I agree... Oh, I’ll add some Agriworlds next week I promise. <grin> Fair enough! I even can drop it to 650 for warp capable one, but they seems to fit into civil fleet much better. Remembering that there is no reason that a civil ship cannot be of the gargantuan sizes of the Imperial ships. It would be exceedingly rare and require substantial resources, possibly only available to the wealthiest members of the Imperial nobility, but it could be done... Kage
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Post by zholud on Feb 11, 2004 16:01:32 GMT -5
Remembering that there is no reason that a civil ship cannot be of the gargantuan sizes of the Imperial ships. It would be exceedingly rare and require substantial resources, possibly only available to the wealthiest members of the Imperial nobility, but it could be done... So, maybe we should decide whether the larger ship needs more potent warp-engine and what is the proportion between cost of engines (both) and the shell. If the ratio is 100 to 1 I can envision quite a large proportion of large ships.
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Post by Kage2020 on Feb 11, 2004 19:44:04 GMT -5
The statistics that I work with are as follows. For a TL10 Warp Drive, which is the most that the adeptus mechanicus can currently produce, it costs $400 (the "$" refers to the Imperial currency unit which will still haven't settled upon) and masses 20lbs per ton of mass of the ship (including cargo) (volume would be 1/50 of the mass, or 0.4cf per ton of cargo). Thus the bigger the ship and the more cargo, the more expensive it is to transfer. Archaeotech warp drives mass less per ton of ship and cost less to produce, although obviously that is not so meaningful in the current time... Kage
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Post by Sojourner on Apr 5, 2004 5:50:45 GMT -5
Re: security...
I can appreciate the presence of some Arbites defence monitors on highly developed worlds. However, I believe warp capability for combat/patrol vessels is reserved exclusively for the Navy...
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