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Post by Dazo on Oct 8, 2004 12:41:15 GMT -5
Will there be any shrine worlds in dorvaster, I know cardinal worlds can also be shrine worlds, but is there any objections to having a seperate shrine world.
How many relics can a shrine world have, what constitutes a relic, somthing the emperor touched maybe. Might a world have two such objects or is it one per world.
The eccliesiarchy can't have soldiers, yes? so does that mean all worlds like this would have sisters of battle as the PDF
I have several ideas for such a world but I must admit the imperial cult is not my forte. And yes, i'll finish all my other worlds before embarking on this one but I would like to test the water and see if its worth the effort.
If thats ok I want this world reserved 52,21,35 - M-V - C875511-7 S Ag 503 Im 154
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 18, 2004 20:48:45 GMT -5
Will there be any shrine worlds in dorvaster, I know cardinal worlds can also be shrine worlds, but is there any objections to having a seperate shrine world. I would presume that the 'cardinal world' is basically the most important shrineworld. There is no reson that another world could not have some significance, real or ascribed. If you want to develop this then you should definitely feel free! How many relics can a shrine world have, what constitutes a relic, somthing the emperor touched maybe. Might a world have two such objects or is it one per world. One need only look to the religions of the real world to find an answer to this... The question is really one of significance and just what people are willing to believe. The eccliesiarchy can't have soldiers, yes? so does that mean all worlds like this would have sisters of battle as the PDF The adeptus ministorum cannot have soldiers per se but remember that the adeptus ministrum is not actually in control of a shrineworld. They might have greater infuence there, but it is still a world of the Imperium and therefore has its own Imperial Commander who maintains certain feudal obligations to the Emperor and His officers. To answer the question specifically, no a shrineworld would not have a PDF composed of adepta sororitas. And yes, i'll finish all my other worlds before embarking on this one but I would like to test the water and see if its worth the effort. As you say, finish the other worlds and get them into SR format for due consideration and uploading into the archive. And despite at what you might hint at elsewhere, your work is appreciated! |
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Post by Dazo on Oct 19, 2004 3:33:49 GMT -5
The more humble the object the more likley they are to believe, you wouldn't say you had the emperors sword in your trophy cabinet, but maybe a stone that bears the supposed imprint of the emperors hand might be believed. I have thought about this, and have deliberatly chosen fairly mundane items, an ever burning torch is the other relic, its light is said to burn with the purity of the emperors grace or something like that. Either way the result is that all non natural lights on the world can not be white lights, they are red and green and orange and purple.
Ah right, now I get it
Thankyou, I am really enjoying myself in Anargo, I just hope I can deliver
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Post by CELS on Oct 19, 2004 5:06:03 GMT -5
As I see it, a shrineworld can have any kind of attraction, as long as millions of people are willing to come to this world every day. And people will, if the Ecclessiarchy declares it to be a shrineworld. I forget the word for it, but there's a tradition amongst people of strong faith to visit important locations. There are several examples in the Sabbat worlds, and Earth is of course the greatest location of all. I believe there's also such a tradition near Ultima Macharia, where there is a set route that these people spend years travelling, to show their faith. As described in the novel, 'Crossfire', it is considered good luck to give these people gifts and food so they can survive their long journey, and they often hitch rides for free onboard starships. I really think we should have a shrine world in the Anargo sector. If not in Dorvastor, then somewhere else. The Anargo subsector, perhaps? They could have any kind of attractions / relics, or even several of them. There could be a gigantic cathedral, a statue that is several kilometers tall, the tomb of a local saint, the site of an famous battle in ancient days (Great Crusade), etc. It doesn't have to be the Emperor's pistol, favourite book, or a bit of his hair  |
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 19, 2004 6:04:31 GMT -5
As I see it, a shrineworld can have any kind of attraction... And don't forget the Rollercoaster of Epiphany! ...as long as millions of people are willing to come to this world every day. <snicker> I really cannot resist, even though it might be jumped on and taking things OffT (in which case I would suggest re-opening the thread which is currently hiding in the PPL forum)... How do they get there? An Imperium which is supposedly over-stretched still finds the resources to transport millions of people to a single world in a day? And that is just one world... What about the others in the Imperium? I forget the word for it, but there's a tradition amongst people of strong faith to visit important locations. Pilgrimage. And it doesn't need strong faith, or at least necessarily so. Cultural ingraining also works. As described in the novel, 'Crossfire', it is considered good luck to give these people gifts and food so they can survive their long journey, and they often hitch rides for free onboard starships. All of which works fine in the real world, but one would have to question the direct application to the 40k universe in the volumes mentioned in the 'fluff'. I really think we should have a shrine world in the Anargo sector. If not in Dorvastor, then somewhere else. I would suggest that the reason that Dorvastor has become such a bastion of the adeptus ministorum that it is because any such Shrineworld is located within that subsector. There could be a gigantic cathedral, a statue that is several kilometers tall... LOL... built with technology that no longer exists? Sorry, sounds like a personal dig but it isn't. Darned cool image, but one has to consider how the begger might have been constructed... It doesn't have to be the Emperor's pistol, favourite book, or a bit of his hair "The Emperor once thanked the wielder of this sword, before they died on the spear of a Chaos fanatic, impaled to save His Most Holy Life." Funny how that would work in a fantasy game as well! |
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Post by CELS on Oct 19, 2004 7:55:10 GMT -5
And don't forget the Rollercoaster of Epiphany! LoL It's not the Imperium that finds the resources, necessarily. I think a lot of the pilgrims spend their life savings on this journey, paying horrific amounts of money for a terribly small space on a ship. Consider the size of starships in 40k. Imagine how many people you could fit in those ships, if you filled them up like boats or trains in the third world. But yeah, it is linked to the question of Navigators and Astropaths, and the rarity of ships in the Imperium. In an Imperium where interstellar traffic is high, you could have captains of ships making some extra money by letting pilgrims sleep in vacant areas of their ship. Sleeping with the grox, in the hallways, torpedo tubes, etc  If you imagine an Imperium where interstellar travell is greatly limited because of the lack of Navigators, then pilgrims are going to have a rough time getting around, and the image of shrineworlds tend to fall apart. That's the word! Cheers. Yep. It depends on one's interpretation of the fluff on space travel. Makes sense, although I believe the cardinal world is a previous shrineworld, what with the the holy fields, etc. Ok, ok, that was a bit much. Of course, if you have a dynasty of tyrants with millions of slaves going at it for ten millennia, I think you could carve a small mountain into a statue. It's incredible, but not impossible. |
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 19, 2004 11:22:22 GMT -5
It's not the Imperium that finds the resources, necessarily. I think a lot of the pilgrims spend their life savings on this journey, paying horrific amounts of money for a terribly small space on a ship. Oh, that I agree with... and one can imagine that unscrupulous types would fleece pilgrims as much as possible, luck be damned for the coin in their pocket (etc.). I was merely referring to the total number of 'warp capable' ships and the fact that some peole wish only the 'state' (i.e. Imperium and not 'private citizens' as if there ever was anything of the sort in the Imperium) to have access to this... And I'm not just talking about 'some people' on this board, either, but rather general movements in the online 'fluff' discussions in general. Consider the size of starships in 40k. Yes, that's a part of the point as well. The size of which vessels? The behomoth ones of the Military or Merchant Fleets, or the 'allowable' smaller ones that don't really show up that much...? Or are we once again going down that nebulous route whereby all Imperium ships have to be several kilometers long!? (Again, tongue in cheek CELS...) Imagine how many people you could fit in those ships, if you filled them up like boats or trains in the third world. Oh yes, and I'm sure they do. "Oh, it's very cosey here. Don't worry about the smell, just think about how warm it is near the sewage treatment facilities? That thrumming...? Oh, that's the power plant... radiation? No, surely not. Your faith in the Emperor will protect you..." <walks away, whispering "Suckers..." > In an Imperium where interstellar traffic is high... And utimately it would be cheaper to subsidise such vessels rather than dedicating specific resources to them. (Although this might occur in some high volume situations where the local 'demand' cannot be supplied with Civil or Merchant contracts...) If you imagine an Imperium where interstellar travell is greatly limited because of the lack of Navigators, then pilgrims are going to have a rough time getting around, and the image of shrineworlds tend to fall apart. Amongst other things. <grin> I can remember the time when I forgot how to spell 'the'. That had me stumped for mind-numbing minutes and was slightly embarssing... Yep. It depends on one's interpretation of the fluff on space travel. Looks like I'm going to have to make a "Thus Sayeth the Law" determination about that, leaving the statements of 4E as a process of either history, or biased propaganda. Makes sense, although I believe the cardinal world is a previous shrineworld, what with the the holy fields, etc. Well, I did say that higher up... Ok, ok, that was a bit much. Of course, if you have a dynasty of tyrants with millions of slaves going at it for ten millennia, I think you could carve a small mountain into a statue. It's incredible, but not impossible. Well, you've got a point there... as long as the overall carving was mountain shaped at the end of it (i.e. roughly pyramidal so that it could support it's own mass). |
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Post by Dazo on Oct 22, 2004 5:32:18 GMT -5
Well I don't know about mountain shaped, I like the idea of collosal monuments, and this is religion we are talking about, I doubt the laws of physics would slow down fanatical builders and sculptors. You could have the statues on top of mountains like that giant jesus in...I forget, but yeah like that
Giant churches/monastaries/cathedrals would obviously be a major part in the lokk and feel of this world
Is there anything stopping the ministorum from having its own pilgrim fleet, what about tax brakes for ship owners who show their grace and piety by allowing pilgrims to ride cheap, or at least not impossibly over priced.
Can there be a pilgrimage route within a single star system or does it have to take in other star systems
I think the main thing about pilgrimage is it is supported by the fluff, at least thats the impression I get, so we know it happens, how it happens might be a little hard to figure out, but we know it does happen.
I was thinking of the Pilrimage senario in GreyKnight by the way, not so much the Gaunts ghosts one.
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Post by CELS on Oct 22, 2004 7:27:36 GMT -5
Well I don't know about mountain shaped, I like the idea of collosal monuments, and this is religion we are talking about, I doubt the laws of physics would slow down fanatical builders and sculptors. You could have the statues on top of mountains like that giant jesus in...I forget, but yeah like that In Rio de Janeiro, I think. Brazil, anyway. Yes, I was thinking along the same lines, except a lot bigger. And as it happens, making extremely large statues is quite difficult, if you're not carving it out from a single piece. You'd be trying to lift up parts weighing hundreds or thousands of tonnes, etc. Much easier to carve it out of a mountain, I imagine. And whilst the imagery of gigantic cathedrals covering the entire world is awesome indeed, I hope you won't go overboard with this. It's not Terra Just some friendly advice, if you will A pilgrim fleet? Unless the pilgrims were given free rides, I don't see what would stop them. The Ecclessiarchy seems like the kind of church that wouldn't mind making a profit from things like this. The fluff offers no restrictions, so you can do whatever you want. Interstellar routes seem cooler though. That way, you have a train of pilgrims constantly moving through the Anargo sector. That's just plain cool How it happens can probably vary a lot. It is a big galaxy, after all. Could you tell us more about this scenario, preferably without spoiling the novel? |
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Post by Dazo on Oct 22, 2004 7:36:56 GMT -5
Yes I can, its only really a backdrop to the story, basically it is the equivilant of a sector/subsector(not entirely sure which) wide pilgrimage route, where the very existence of the worlds in it were to support/take advantage of the pilgrims who were following in the footsteps of some famous saint, as well as the actual shrine/cardinal worlds themselves, the whole thing was built around the pilgrimage, not relics. There were alot of worlds and warp capable ships were needed, without re-reading the novel I cant be more crystal about it |
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Post by Kage2020 on Oct 24, 2004 19:13:32 GMT -5
Well I don't know about mountain shaped, I like the idea of collosal monuments, and this is religion we are talking about, I doubt the laws of physics would slow down fanatical builders and sculptors. There is a significant difference between fanatacism 'slowing them down' and actually being able to carve the begger... It's overall an irrelevant point. I ask merely not to have to massively suspend disbelief. That's happening a tad too often in the 'fluff' at the moment. Is there anything stopping the ministorum from having its own pilgrim fleet... Only the 'fluff', or rather an interpretation of the 'fluff'... Can there be a pilgrimage route within a single star system or does it have to take in other star systems No reason that there cannot be a route in the system... but you're still going to require piligrims. And an entire world of pilgrims isn't going to last for that long. I think the main thing about pilgrimage is it is supported by the fluff, at least thats the impression I get, so we know it happens, how it happens might be a little hard to figure out, but we know it does happen. Oh, don't get me wrong... it is a part of the 'fluff'. But it is also one that needs to be explained. We are, as much as possible, not to be involved in the same "hand-waving" that causes many of our problems. Leave that to GW. |
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Post by Dazo on Nov 4, 2004 11:24:26 GMT -5
Well it has a population of 50 million, so it might, the idea was that various worlds in the system would have a temple/church/path attached to it, and by attached I mean on it. It just seemes a cool idea sorry, for someone so vociferal on the the subject of the rule of cool, I continually seem to fall under its spell I couldn't agree more.... so do we have any theories I'm going to need help with the religious aspect of the SR, my own beliefs tend to preclude all others, meaning I don't understand how others work. Date of preparation: 322 M39 World UWP: C8757E9-7 S Ag 503 Im 143 Diameter: 8,200 miles Density: Molten Core, 0.98 terra Mass: 0.99 Terra Gravity: 0.993 terra Primary Mass (Star): 0.46 sol Orbit number (Planet): 0.2 AU Orbital period (Planet): 48.168standard days Rotation period: 60 standard hours Axial Tilt: 36 degrees Orbital Eccentricity: 0.005 Seismic Stress Factor: 1.3 Asteroid Belt Zones: 0 Primary Mass (Planet): 0.99 terra Atmospheric composition: Standard oxygen-nitrogen mix, with gas mix taint Surface pressure: 1.2 atm Stellar luminosity: 0.42 Orbit factor: 836.345 Energy absorption: 0.78 Greenhouse effect: 1.1 Base temperature: 28.385 degrees C Orbital eccentricity modifier: Tc=0.15 degrees C, Tf=-0.15 degrees C Latitude temperature effects: 1=+21, 2=+14, 3=+7, 4=0, 5=-7, 6=-14, 7=-21, 8=-28, 9=-35, 10=-42, 11=-49 degrees C Axial Tilt Effects: 1=0.25, 2=0.5, 3=0.75, 4=1, 5=1, 6=1, 7=1, 8=1, 9=1, 10=1, 11=1 degrees Axial tilt effects: +21.6 degrees, -36 degrees Daytime plus: +0.21 degrees Nighttime minus: -1.0 degrees Native life: Exists Atmospheric terraforming No Greenhouse effect terraforming: No Albedo terraforming: No Temperature terraforming: No Hydrographic percent: 50% Hydrosphere composition: Liquid water Number of tectonic plates: 5 Hydrosphere terraforming: No Terrain terraforming: No Number of major continents 2 Number of minor continents: 5 Number of large islands: 4 Number of small islands: 25 Number of archipelagos: 0 Notable volcanoes: 4 Weather control: Yes Natural resources: Radioactives, Compounds Processed resources: Agroproducts Manufactured goods: Durables, Consumables, Weapons Information: Software, Documents Total population: 50,000,000 Local customs: 2 Unusual significance of art/Religious figures Unusual significance of superstition/All population Primary cities: 2 Leuitica 6,000,000, Lactantius, 5,000,000 Secondary cities: 18 combined pop, 25.000,000 Tertiary cities: 1000 combined pop 24,000,000 Progressiveness: Radical, Enterprising Aggressiveness: Unaggressive, Neutral Extensiveness: Harmonious, Aloof Representative authority: Religious Autocracy, Several councils World government description: Other authority: God View: Deism . Spiritual Aim: Believers seek to promote peace, harmony, and order to improve the quality of life for all Devotional Requirement: Several days per week Organisation Structure: Loose hierarchy answerable to a central authority with minimal decision-making at lower levels Liturgical Formality: Holy writings are accessible only to certain specific levels of authority Missionary Fervour: Ordinary among a limited number of sophont races Number of Adherents: 50,000,000 What I like is this world has a rotation period of 60 hours, almost exactly what I wanted, I had thoughts about having like a different day/night culture sort of thing |
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Post by Dazo on Nov 26, 2004 11:51:14 GMT -5
Bollocks, how did that happen, me and leslie have the same UWP, talk about walking around with your eyes shut, bugger, pardon my french, I can't believe I missed that Well then, its going to have to be this one 51,26,41 - M-V - DA96998-6 S Hi 300 Im CD6, being the only large world that is not a bloody water world or has a toxic atmosphere, and look at those resources, I just wanted a quiet little agri world with a few shrines. Somebody put me at ease and tell me it'll be alright.  |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 1, 2004 15:18:28 GMT -5
The revised stats for this world are as follows
Date of preparation: 322 M39
World UWP: DA96998-6 S Hi 300 Im CD6
Diameter: 10,400 miles (16,640 km)
Density: Molten Core, 1.0 terra
Mass: 1.53 Terra
Gravity: 1.05 terra
Primary Mass (Star): 0.46 sol
Orbit number (Planet): 0.2 AU
Orbital period (Planet): 48.168standard days
Rotation period: 60 standard hours
Axial Tilt: 16 degrees
Orbital Eccentricity: 0.002
Seismic Stress Factor: 0.0
Asteroid Belt Zones: 0
Primary Mass (Planet): 1.53 terra
Atmospheric composition: Standard oxygen-nitrogen mix, with pollutants taint
Surface pressure: 1.9 atm
Stellar luminosity: 0.42
Orbit factor: 836.345
Energy absorption: 0.74
Greenhouse effect: 1.15
Base temperature: 25.926 degrees C
Orbital eccentricity modifier: Tc=0.6 degrees C, Tf=-0.6 degrees C
Latitude temperature effects: 1=+24, 2=+16, 3=+8, 4=0, 5=-8, 6=-16, 7=-24, 8=-32, 9=-40, 10=-48, 11=-56 degrees C
Axial Tilt Effects: 1=0, 2=0, 3=0, 4=0, 5=0.25, 6=0.5, 7=0.75, 8=1, 9=1, 10=1, 11=1 degrees
Axial tilt effects: +9.6 degrees, -16 degrees
Daytime plus: +0.168 degrees
Nighttime minus: -0.5 degrees
Native life: Exists
Atmospheric terraforming No
Greenhouse effect terraforming: No
Albedo terraforming: No
Temperature terraforming: No
Hydrographic percent: 55%
Hydrosphere composition: Tainted liquid water
Number of tectonic plates: 5
Hydrosphere terraforming: No
Terrain terraforming: No
Number of major continents 2
Number of minor continents: 5
Number of large islands: 4
Number of small islands: 25
Number of archipelagos: 0
Notable volcanoes: 4
Weather control: no
Natural resources: Agriculture, ores
Processed resources: Agroproducts, metals
Manufactured goods: Durables, Consumables, Weapons
Information: Recordings, Documents
Total population: 3,000,000,000
Local customs: 2
Unusual significance of art/Religious figures
Unusual significance of superstition/All population
Unusual significance of colour/All population
Primary cities: 2 Leuitica 56,000,000, Lactantius, 47,000,000
Secondary cities: 28 combined pop, 1,125,000,000
Tertiary cities: 1000 combined pop 1,124,000,000
Progressiveness: Radical, Enterprising
Aggressiveness: Unaggressive, Neutral
Extensiveness: Harmonious, Aloof
Representative authority: Religious Autocracy, Several councils
World government description:
Other authority:
God View: Deism .
Spiritual Aim: Believers seek to promote peace, harmony, and order to improve the quality of life for all
Devotional Requirement: Several days per week
Organisation Structure: Loose hierarchy answerable to a central authority with minimal decision-making at lower levels
Liturgical Formality: Holy writings are accessible only to certain specific levels of authority
Missionary Fervour: Ordinary among a limited number of sophont races
Number of Adherents: 2,000,000,000
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Post by CELS on Dec 3, 2004 9:24:04 GMT -5
Well, it's not as if the Dorvastor subsector is shy on worlds with high resources. Anyway, resources don't have to be in form of gold and diamonds, does it? This is a shrineworld and that unique position might give it some unusual resources. Holy water, holy oils, holy figurines, etc.
Put some thought into it, and I'm sure you can find a way to get what you had in mind.
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