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Post by ZoomDog on Jul 18, 2004 16:05:48 GMT -5
First off, apologies if I repeat something that has already been mentioned. I skim read most of the posts and may have missed something (so much to read ) Personally I'm against the idea of using the world as a PDF training world. Yes they are full time soldiers, and yes they need good military training and experience, but is it neccessary to fly them to another system to do this? As mentioned earlier, PDF generally do not leave their worlds in a military role, they train to fight on their homeworld as that's where they will be fighting. Why do they need to gain experience on how to fight on other worlds? Someone mentioned that it would be hard to have live fire training on their home worlds. Why is this? There are always going to be unpopulated areas on planets, whether out in the bush, middle of the desert, or abandoned areas of Hives; the PDF can claim a few of these as training areas, limit civilian access to the surronding area, then train away. Another point was training with other arms, such as Titans, Armour, Artillery etc, and this is a valid point. However, would not the PDF include Armour and Artillery? One possibility I thought of while reading the thread is that every 'x' months, every world sends sends their best PDF soldiers to the Academy for some intensive training. From these men, a percentage are selected to join the Imperial Guard. For those that fail to make the cut, they are returned to their home, and bring back some good experience to share with their PDF unit. If an attack is suspected, it doesn't really take too long to reinforce Anargo. In fact, monitor stations in the outskirts of the system are very likely to pick up incoming enemies in time for the troops on the Academy to get home. Not sure on your reasoning here CELS. Lets say it takes 3 weeks to get from the warp zone to the inhabited worlds. An enemy fleet appears in the system, the monitors detect them, and send the signal to the Academy for all forces to return to their world. The PDF takes a few days to organise themselves, they fly back to their world, then they also jump back to the Materium at the edge of the Warp Zone, 3 weeks away from their planets. Meanwhile the enemy fleet has been making steady progress into the system. Doesn't matter how quickly they can organise themselves, or how close the Academy is, the enemy forces will be ahead. (Unless the monitors can pick ships up while they're still in the Warp. Not sure how effective they'd be though, depending on their range). EDIT - Perhaps rather then each planet sending it's PDF to the Academy, the Academy has a small fleet of it's own that tours the sector, spending a couple of months training with a world's PDF, then moves onto the next world. This would enable them to train the PDF to a higher quality without them leaving their worlds.
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Post by CELS on Jul 18, 2004 20:39:47 GMT -5
First off, apologies if I repeat something that has already been mentioned. I skim read most of the posts and may have missed something (so much to read ) No worries As Kage wrote a few posts back, (I guess you must have missed it) he was willing to make it a thing for the Guard, Navy, Mechanicus and Storm Troopers, but to have the Lord Militant of Anargo (or someone else from Anargo) contribute to its conception. Some worlds are quite densely populated, if you're going to train artillery, Titans and bombers, chances are you'll do some collateral damage Yes, they would, IMO That is indeed a possibility! You're quite right, but at this point, I seemed to remember that the Academy was located in the Anargo system, for some reason
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 18, 2004 21:17:30 GMT -5
The idea that the Academy would in fact serve a a proving ground where the IG tihes would be selected is IMO a good one. This would ensure the Munitorum of the quality of the troops levied in the sector.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 19, 2004 1:20:52 GMT -5
By the sounds of it I may just close the concept of the Academy. It was just an interesting idea, but I really don't like what people are trying to make it into... So best to shut it down and merely create another concept for a world, or import one or whatever. Furthermore, some of the concepts are going back to a variation of what it was originally designed to do, which is kind of amusing... It's PDF training ground... then it's Guard, because that's not 'possible'... then it's PDF again because they're using it as a 'proving ground'... I'm most unkeen, however, on the 'roving fleet' training PDF. Hmmn... perhaps this is because rather than someone developing it in a conceptual fashion it is turned into a discussion on how PDF and Guard might be 'trained'? (And incidentally, I really dislike the idea that people sign up to the Guard... You sign up to the PDF and if - note that "if"! - the world is required to submit a tithe of troops and a regiment is Founded, the troops come from the PDF not 'Guard recruitment centres'. :
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 19, 2004 23:17:52 GMT -5
Well the way you described it seems logical enough and that's how I picture things work. However if you look at the way the Tanith regiments were formed, you'll note most of them were volunteers, many of them had a job outside the army before the Founding. Although this might be because Tanith did not have a standing army...
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 20, 2004 12:46:39 GMT -5
So would anyone care to make a reasonable statement of how they envision the Academy functioning, if at all? A description that caters to both PDF and Guard concepts, as appropriate, would be useful!
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 20, 2004 20:03:53 GMT -5
Well, it would depend what you would want the Academy to do. I might try to do that once we have established what its purpose is supposed to be. Describing the way it works can only be done once there is a consensus on its role, which obviously there is not
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 21, 2004 0:00:43 GMT -5
Well, I was kinda after a revised concept... I've seen some contradictory information being placed up and wondered if someone wanted to clarify. As a result of this I've forgotten the core idea that was winging around in my head and even looking at the first post doesn't particularly help! So what some basic points? - It was set up by the original Lord Anargo, then an adeptus arbites 'commander' who subsequently became involved in the 'purge' of the Sargassos.
- The nature of the involvement of Gaius is based around two features: (1) the motivation to set up the 'structure'; and (2) potentially the means to set up the structure (i.e. construction of a 'space station' based upon the current industrial specialisation of Anargo). It need be nore more than this except as a continued involvement 'out of interest'. The subsequently enobled Lord Anargo would not be involved in a concrete, secular, fashion.
- The Academy was based around the concept of an OTS (Officer Training School) first and foremost. One might consider this to be the equivalent of 'military school', perhaps? Something that you send young teens for training if the facility is seen as being outside, or including parts that are outside of, the schola progenium. Indeed, being external to the Imperium-restricted schola progenium is very valid and most interesting (links in with culture; difference between 'staff officers' and 'field officers', etc.).
- It would be 'nice' if the system and worlds could be utilised for the training of military units, whether these are Guard or PDF. A centralised training ground is not applicable since it's easier to train the PDF, for example, on the homeworld (as Guards are trained on the Founding world). But integrated as a 'proving' ground, perhaps? Inclusion of Guard and PDF elements in 'wargames'? I don't know...
- As to the Fleet in the system? Not sure about those. The Fleet HQ are based out of Anargo Secundus at present...
Just some thoughts.
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 21, 2004 21:10:38 GMT -5
I have nothing against an officer training school (even including the PDF officers). IMO however either they would be teens and as such finsihed their schooling in the Schola Progenium on the planet before being sent to the different military schools (one could imagine a staff school, a guard school, a stormtrooper school and a commissariat school). That would probably be the major role of the Academy (you might also include naval school if you so wanted).
I could definitely see the planet as a garrison world where troops keep sharp and ready for war through mock battles. Personally I would tend to avoid having PDF there but that's just a personal opinion
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 22, 2004 1:20:28 GMT -5
Well, by definition the world must have its own PDF as part of the Imperial Commanders obligations to the Imperium. Of course, this might be a fairly moot concept if one considers the large number of other 'elite' troops present (and I'm not talking Stormtroopers here).
I would also at this point like to state that the schola progenium is a school for 'citizens' of the Imperium, which includes the adeptus terra and "Imperial nobility". It does not include provincial nobility... Hmmn, might require another thread on this. I know it was discussed previously, but to little avail since it tended to ignore other aspects of the Imperium.
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 22, 2004 23:24:18 GMT -5
The problem with having a PDF on the planet is that you'd have to have a population from which you can draw the troops and as everyone would probably be essential to the proper working of the installations and non-essentials would be imported from off-world, I don't see how a PDF would evist (and it's relatively not important when compated to the permanent IG garrison likely to be posted there).
Personally I consider the Schola Progenium to be a school reserved for Adepts of the Imperium alone. That is anyone can join but they will be servants of the state. The nobility would probably be educated by the Ordo Famolous (sp?), at least IMO
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 23, 2004 8:17:13 GMT -5
OffT: Wrong thread for the last bit... erm, possibly... That's a new bit of the 'fluff', obviously. This boycotting of buying GW products can have its problems. If you could post more information on them on the Education thread that would be useful... Of course, I'm going to ignore it if it suggests that the adeptus ministorum is in charge of education. That's just wrong in so many ways! As to the first bit, erm... aren't you making huge assumptions here about the population, the size of the installation, etc.?
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 25, 2004 23:47:32 GMT -5
Well, I don't see what wrong with the church being in charge with religious education, it has been as such for centuries, and even to this day the Jesuits remain among the best teachers ever. Personally I wish I could have been educated by those people (even if it meant going to church every week) because of the incredible quality of their education system (and the fact that I like their political abilites).
Well, you never made quite clear how large the installation would be so I assume it would be too small to field a permanent PDF garrison. Even out of several hundred thousand people living on the planet it might be difficult to create a PDF.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 26, 2004 3:38:52 GMT -5
That's because everything is still in flux... still waiting for that good vision that not everyone seems to have a big or minor problem with. While the original concept did have a small indigenous population and a much larger transient one, depending on which bits of the Academy are deemed interesting enough... if that does ever get decided on without a repost of the concept. Hmmn... given the lack of cohesive information on Guard structure, Fleet structure, etc., and integration into the concept of "Imperium culture/society", I'm going to consider this thread closed... Too much information is predicated upon just how things work...
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Post by Philip on Jul 27, 2004 13:45:11 GMT -5
I was just thinking, what if this world was more like a first stop to shipping out, a staging post or outer marker.
Invictonburg is going to have a huge amount of troops to add the sector, all trained, kitted out, feed, loads of rations and ship transport. Maybe this world is the first stop, were they are devided up, trained up to full standard and shipped out?
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