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Post by Sojourner on May 30, 2004 5:35:04 GMT -5
Personally, I'm not all that keen on the name. You can't devote an entire world to the military and the military only - you have to have certain, and in true Imperial style, substantial bodies of civilians and officials to organise transport, medicare, food production and distribution, etc etc. As a nickname - sure. But the world should have other things about it than purely being a training ground.
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Post by Kage2020 on May 30, 2004 5:52:03 GMT -5
That has not been questioned and, indeed, it is entirely necessary! Perhaps you have something a tad more constructive on this subject? Or would you like to take up construction of the world yourself? Kage
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Post by Sojourner on May 30, 2004 5:58:33 GMT -5
Was that a polite way of saying 'pull your weight'?
Well, I'm afraid I can't take up anything else at the moment - more pressing needs on my time. I'm currently content to bitch and moan at other people's ideas.
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Post by Kage2020 on May 30, 2004 6:16:46 GMT -5
No, not saying 'pull your weight'... though it would be good to see your inciteful mind participating fully in the project! Kage
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Post by Brusilov on Jun 30, 2004 9:46:02 GMT -5
Personally I don't really see the point in this planet. IMO PDF officers are trained at home to maximise their specialisation in their home environment (there is no need for them to train for desert fighting if they're leaving in a jungle).
As to general officers of the Munitorum they do not really need to train on the field because they'll never see it. They direct the battle away from the field, safely in their bunker and IMO terrain plays little role in their training.
But that's really IMO
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Post by Sojourner on Jun 30, 2004 11:08:38 GMT -5
I don't see it as being an Imperial institution. Rather a local thing set up by Lord Anargo to give his sector forces some offworld training opportunities.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jun 30, 2004 12:41:39 GMT -5
Which is exactly what it is... <-- Darn those one liners!
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 1, 2004 5:13:43 GMT -5
Something like Salusa Secundus then? Sorry for the Dune analogy but to me many features in 40k are that of Dune in disguise I can see its use but I'm not sure the Lord Anargo (if there is even such things, I don't know if you have decided such a position exist, but personally I'm really unsure) would be allowed to do such a thing.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 1, 2004 11:13:59 GMT -5
LOL... Not quite Salusa Secundus. It hasn't been nuked into oblivion, for one! The concept has, however, been under substantial change recently. The first Lord Anargo, following the coup d'etat against the Anargan Theocracy, was responsible for the basic setup of the Academy, which I personally envisage as a 'spaceship' sized, well, station. That is the Academy to me, the name of the system being synonymous with it... but just whether something was there at another time is up for grabs. Given the fact it has a K-class star, I'm betting that there was an 'indigenous' (well, human) population... It kind of snow-balled from there... As to whether he would be allowed to do it? I see no specific reason why not. As the nominal sector head and, as such, with not insignificant political clout and economic influence, the idea of creating a 'training school' for PDF officers, etc., would be reasonable... Not only does it create a backbone for future Foundings, but also as a means of tracking into the Fleet... Another version of the "Cypra Mundian warrior elite", though slightly altered... A slightly more diffuse approach to the concept... Indeed, it kind of ties into the concept of diffusion of 'training facilities' for quite a few of the ordinati imperialis...
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Post by CELS on Jul 1, 2004 19:57:05 GMT -5
I seem to remember that there was a Lord of the Helican sub and of the Scarus sector from the Eisenhorn novels... is my memory failing me?
One further point with the Academy; even if it isn't identical to the world from which the PDF armies originate, it'll at least offer them a chance to participate in mock-battle on an epic scale. Live-fire exercises with armoured regiments, super-heavy tanks, maybe even titans, with support from Imperial Navy, etc... that is something I would imagine would be difficult to get done on the seperate worlds. So, instead, they all meet up and do it here.
And like the big international military winter-exercises in Norway allow the Norwegian soldiers to practice fighting with other forces (using german artillery and US Marines), this would give the PDF a chance to fight with off-worlders, which could prove a valuable experience.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 2, 2004 5:45:15 GMT -5
Yes, that was broadly the point. What better way to train officers then in live fire training exercises... or something like that!
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Post by Brusilov on Jul 8, 2004 6:39:33 GMT -5
Each to his own, personally, while I can understand the concept I do not support it. As said, I don't really see the point in having PDF forces training with material they might never have access to when defending their worlds. Moreover, it would be quite expensive to ferry troops back and forth from different worlds in the sub or even the entire sector. Not mentioning that this would reduce the defences of the planets that send their troops to train there.
If this were for the purpose of the IG, then yes I could possibly agree with it, although in that case the Lord Anargo would have nothing to do with it, as this would be a Munitorum/Navy facility with probably the sector staff college included. As such it might also serve as a garrison for prepositioned forces in the Anargo sub.
Just some ideas
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 8, 2004 10:55:59 GMT -5
As said, I don't really see the point in having PDF forces training with material they might never have access to when defending their worlds. Erm, who said this? And this is also where we run into the broad concept of thematic armies once again... Why cannot a world have lasweapons for example? They don't have the technology to produce them, but they can import them... Same goes with all but the most advanced technologies. Taking the assumptions of the 40k universe and implying them inconsistently sometimes creates more problems than it solves unless you are only interested in a static result. Moreover, it would be quite expensive to ferry troops back and forth from different worlds in the sub or even the entire sector. Yes, that's true. Remember, however, the Academy was meant to be a centre of learning. The other side of things was a subsequent addition. And, of course, when you have a planetary economy at your beck and call what is to stop you doing this? Not mentioning that this would reduce the defences of the planets that send their troops to train there. For when the orks/necrons/tyranids/tau/eldar/whatever invade as they did last week? Do you perceive war to be that common such that people cannot send a regiment or two for advanced training? If this were for the purpose of the IG, then yes I could possibly agree with it... I find it strange that ferrying Guard troops is considered 'cheap' - or at least worthwhile - and not Imperial Commanders. Yes, the Imperium has in many regards a lot more 'money' to throw around, but remember so to do Imperial Commanders. Technically they have the 'gross domestic product' of an entire world (minus a tithe) to dip into. And what is it that the Guard has that might be considerd significantly more advanced weaponry? (This is where my knowledge of the wargame falls short. I stopped playing as they were introducing the concept of limited arms and limited warfare into the game, i.e. the whole themed armies malarky.) Furthermore, shipping is not that rare. And if you want a Naval base, then go to Anargo Secundus...
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Post by CELS on Jul 8, 2004 12:12:05 GMT -5
Erm, who said this? And this is also where we run into the broad concept of thematic armies once again... Why cannot a world have lasweapons for example? They don't have the technology to produce them, but they can import them... Same goes with all but the most advanced technologies. Considering that the lasguns are known to be very cheap (which is why they are given to the majority of IG forces, rather than the much more powerful hellguns), there's no reason why some worlds can't have imported lasweapons. Besides, not all lasguns are the same, I would imagine. Some might be cheaper than others. As I recall it, the Academy was also meant to be a location where inter-branch exercises would take place, and Imperial Guard regiments might learn to fight with the Imperial Navy, PDF regiments with the Imperial Guard, or even Imperial Guard with the Legio Titanica. In fact, all new Titans from Legio Lancea spend their first years on Proteus for guard duty. The Academy might be a good stop for the inexperienced princeps on their road to war. I don't, but I think Brusilov thought that you intended a much larger part of the Anargo PDF to spend their time training in the Academy. That, for example, they would spend every fourth month on this planet, rather than only a few months in their entire military careers. Considering the tremendous traffic in the Imperium, with rogue traders and individual merchants owning their own ships, I agree that it would be strange if the Commander couldn't afford this. Sure, it would be expensive, but military education is expensive. Just look at what some countries spend on flight simulators, tank simulators, etc. I do believe that the Imperial Guard has significantly more advanced weaponry, such as the hellgun used by storm trooper, the plasma gun and melta gun special weapons, the lascannon support weapons, and so on. The flak armour and lasgun of the average trooper however, is not significantly more advanced than that of PDF.
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Post by Kage2020 on Jul 9, 2004 12:39:38 GMT -5
Overall I must admit that I feel - and, yes, I might be making it up - that there is a tendency to view the PDF as more 'militia'. Country bumpkins on a world in which you Found a Guard regiment, put them through 'Guard training' and they suddenly become 'troopers' with access to arms that are not present anywhere else... All I can say to that is 'Nah', or at least 'Really!?'. I would suggest that it is a mistake to view the PDF as anything other than a professional military force... erm, except when they are specifically described as being militia or a specific variant, of course. The Guard do have an advantage that, for the most part, they are involved in more actions than any PDF could compare to. They are battle hardened and tempered. That Imperial Commanders would wish to create a forum where it was possible to impart more experience upon their troops and commanders...? Well, yes I do see that. Not only in terms of special/over consumption on behalf of both 'imperial' and 'local' nobility (and, yes, I do still see this divisions), but also as a means of acquiring 'battlefield experience' with non-familiar units. Yes, it can cost quite a bit but, again, they have the GDP - or GWP, rather - of entire planets or even systems... And, incidentally, what the hell are hellguns? I've seen numerous representations of them, from shotguns and above...
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