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Post by Destecado on Dec 21, 2004 18:34:12 GMT -5
Yeah it would, it has a little more water than I would have liked, but that is balanced by it being a larger world. If we could change the star, as I said i'm sick of MV stars, and the tech level would have to be lowered, and i'm not to sure about a naval base, but the cartels do own a sizeable fleet.... No asteroid belts but there are 3 gas giants yes it might just work As per my PM, you may also want to check out some of the other Subsectors. There might be a better fit in one of them. I'm not saying that I don't want them in the Sargassos, but depending on the back story, another subsector might be a better fit. It may also get you something other than an M-V star. Sorry that's about all we have in Sargassos and getting them changed to something else is currently not an option (or atleast more trouble than its worth).  |
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Post by CELS on Dec 22, 2004 9:32:53 GMT -5
Since none of you seem to agree about anything much, I'll just hop right in and make matters worse 1) I have a big problem with a huge corporation in the Meksum subsector that rivals the Adeptus Mechanicus in terms of technology. First of all, there has been a lot of technological progress since the Age of Technology, and there is no way that this corporation has had the same resources to do research as the Adeptus Mechanicus in this time. In other words, whilst this corporation might have almost all of the Age of Technology-stuff that is still available to the Imperium, the Adeptus Mechanicus would still be in the lead, in my opinion. Of course, this would be different if the corporation specialised in one or two areas of research, but that's not the impression I'm getting. If the corporation has a lot of Age of Technology-stuff that the Adeptus Mechanicus does not, keep in mind that the Adeptus Mechanicus has probably been spying on this corporation for ten thousand years. As I mention in my article, the Adeptus Mechanicus would definitely have their own Inquisition-like organisation that watches for techno-heresy. Also keep in mind that the Adeptus Mechanicus is almost everywhere in the galaxy. Is it really that likely that this corporation has a lot of stuff that the Adeptus Mechanicus does not? 2) You mention artificial intelligence, and that is fair enough. I'm of the opinion that the Imperium has the technology to create robots and droids like the Tau, but that they choose not to, because of the Iron Men and the philosophies of the Adeptus Mechanicus. That some forces within the Imperium do not feel held back by these restrictions is almost a given. BUT... again, keep in mind that the Adeptus Mechanicus has been watching the corporation for ten thousand years. You hint that the corporation has agents spying in Imperial organisations. Well, I'll discuss the likelyhood of that below, but you can damn well count on the opposite. 3) Does the corporation really have operatives in the Imperial Inquisition? I would say no. At least in positions of significance. That the corporation might have some operative posing as a lowly worker in some Inquisition facility is unlikely, but not impossible. But the idea that this corporation has operatives in a position in the Inquisition that actually benefits them is so unlikely that you'd sooner see orks do the same  The Inquisition is without a doubt one of the three organisations in the Imperium that is most difficult to infiltrate (the others would be Adeptus Custodes and Officio Assassinorum, by the way). The Inquisition has access to so much forbidden knowledge and so, so, so much power that the Imperium simply cannot afford that spies and saboteurs infiltrate it. 4) Whitey pussy organisation. Am I the only one who finds that name a bit... awkward?  Anyway, I have to agree with zholud, and I'm getting increasingly tired of seeing unselfish worlds and corporations with utopic dreams of helping everyone. The world isn't like that, and you can bet your butt that the Imperium isn't like that. There are exceptions of course, but... they're exceptions. Besides... it's just so much more interesting when people have selfish motives and when they're not just out to help everyone. That's what made Soul Drinkers a good book, that's what makes the Adeptus Mechanicus interesting, and the same goes for the Adeptus Astartes, the Adeptus Ministorum, etc. I could give more examples, of course. Take Inquisitor Eisenhorn. Dan Abnett would not write three books about him if he was completely goody-goody and went by the book. 4) What's this about "Mechanicus treachary and alpha legion brutality only halted by the skilled and measured intervention of the ultramarines and the nascent inquisition" |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 22, 2004 10:24:56 GMT -5
*steps out of wreckage, bruised but alive* Right then So which sub sector would be less problematic for you, indeed which sector would be better. Why, how much actuall room do you need for research, unlike the AM the Cartels have access to very powerful super computers and are not afraid of using xenos tech. Say what you like but as far as I can tell the AM use neither, they, from everything i've read destroy these thing on sight. So staight away The cartels have just gotten a massive leapt forward. Only in terms of resources, but this is a quality not quantity issue. The AM date back how far 20-30 thousand years, well Anexus is also very old at least 20 thousand years, and they did not fall into barbarism the way every other world did so their is no reason on earth to assume they simply stopped scientific research simply because they had GAoT stuff. Its numerous corporations, and yes they did specialise, it was only later after contact with the imperium they became unified into one. Each division though kept its speciality, and we are not talking weapons and such but more colonial stuff, mining, building, medical ect The corporation only has non military tech, the company that responsible for that side of things was destoyed, along with all the STC they had, and they were destroyed by the other corporations deliberatly so the AM would never have them. They turned their planetary defence inward and burned alot of there own world. So would the AM think it worth the effort to spy on them. Yes I know but how long have they been plying their trade. Because i'm wonder when execatly was the term techno heresy coined, before or after the HH. No this type of technology is considered as much an abomination by the aurora as it is by the AM. What I mean is more of a supercomputer, very powerful, but in no way autonymous, can't move around or interact unless given orders to. and maybe very very advanced guided weapons, which are not considered AI by the company but which might be by the AM Ok possibly not, but the inquisition might give them support, as might some radical elements of the AM, thats would be a better compromise I think Not me, I had nothing to do with that. Only helping for a price, trade monopolies, work contracts for life, worlds of their own. Deep hatred of one of the major powers of the imperium, concealed contempt for the rest and a subtle eon spanning plan to take over the galaxy and overthrow the imperium. Whel excuse me for being so damn utopian  ...... If I was going to take over the world that how i'd do it. I'd then set out to conquer the rest of the universe with terminal force, you do somthing nice, then you start blowing things up. They are treacherous, they have their own agenda and every one else be damned. The alpha legion were brutal the ultramarines more measured and honourable, and at the time the inquisition was still young and no where near as convoluted as it is today. But if you want it moved out of the sector thats ok |
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Post by Zholud on Dec 22, 2004 10:42:06 GMT -5
4) Whitey pussy organisation. Am I the only one who finds that name a bit... awkward? OK, I just haven’t thought much how to put it. Original phase is from the following joke: “-Hey, Toad, why are you so green, slippery and covered with pimples? -Oh, no, I’m all white and downy. I’m just ill at the moment.”  Anyway, I have to agree with zholud, Thanks  Whisper to Dazo: there is conspiracy of sub-sectors heads to rain on your planets” ;D  |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 22, 2004 10:50:47 GMT -5
If it was just rain I wouldn't mind, but when the rain is made of plasma bombs and prow lances you have to think someone really doesn't like you Edit: Errr, I dont get it Zholud  |
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Post by CELS on Dec 22, 2004 11:03:05 GMT -5
So which sub sector would be less problematic for you, indeed which sector would be better. You misunderstand. The problem (or one of the problems ) is that this is a very small corporation, compared to the Adeptus Mechanicus organisation. So, it's not a question of which subsector, it's a question of how it can be so competitive when it's so small. Erm, I'm not talking about room. I'm talking about the fact that your corporation might have hundreds of millions, or even several billion employees. The Adeptus Mechanicus probably has a million times more, at the very least. It's a question of resources, here. What xenos tech? Ork computers would be primitive at best, Eldar computers would be useless... Oh, and did you read my short story for Proteus, in the fiction forum? What was in the yellow crates? The cartels are not the only ones studying xenos tech. Hence the name 'Collegia Xenos'. (If you didn't get that, you should read my Adeptus Mechanicus article after reading my story ) The difference is, of course, that the Adeptus Mechanicus has access to a hell of a lot more xenos tech than the Cartels. Super-computers... well, you have to remember that the Adeptus Mechanicus has computers (they call them cogitators), but not artificial intelligence. Unless the Cartels make heavy use of artificial intelligence, they have no real advantage. And even then, one should consider the advantage of Adeptus Mechanicus when it comes to cybernetics. They don't have artificial intelligence, but they do have human intelligence amplified by mechanical, bionic, and biological implants. Then again, neither did the Adeptus Mechanicus. The only difference is that the Adeptus Mechanicus has a hell of a lot more resources than the Cartels. Oh, and the Adeptus Mechanicus has the authority to requisition stuff from the Cartel, but not vice versa. Would the AM be so naive that they would not? Again, I think you should read my article, to see my thoughts on the naive Adeptus Mechanicus. I imagine that the term was coined as soon as the Cult Mechanicus emerged on Mars, which would be during the Age of Strife. It was enforced in the Imperium after the Adeptus Mechanicus became part of the Imperium, during the Great Crusade. The Imperium has guided weapons. See guided torpedoes in BFG. As long as it's not artificial intelligence though, I doubt they would have any advantage over the AM, as I've already explained. 1) The AM has had more resources for millennia, and 2) The AM and the Inquisition has probably been spying on the Cartels for millennia, conducting razzias, etc. That is a possibility. Still utopian I meant; Explain the episode. Not; explain why the AM is treacherous, etc. |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 22, 2004 11:27:24 GMT -5
Its unimportant, as of now the Cartels are a nebolous group that exists beyond the bounds of anargo, and so far only a few worlds have been chosen by them to exploit for the good of the empire. I'll spread the worlds around a bit aswell I think, only Meksum, Dorvaster and sargassos will have a world with Cartel involvement. Its for the best |
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Post by CELS on Dec 22, 2004 11:31:53 GMT -5
It doesn't really change anything for me, but there you go. Like I said, it's not a question of location, but resources, competence and goals |
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Post by Philip on Dec 22, 2004 15:31:49 GMT -5
The corporation only has non military tech, the company that responsible for that side of things was destoyed, along with all the STC they had, and they were destroyed by the other corporations deliberatly so the AM would never have them. They turned their planetary defence inward and burned alot of there own world. So would the AM think it worth the effort to spy on them. Err, so let me just double check this one: they destroyed all the STC and they have no military? So they can’t make any new technology or defend themselves? Perhaps I’m missing something, *thinks really hard* Nope, don’t get it Hmm, super computer built without STC and undefended, wouldn’t the Ad Mec walk of with these little beauties? I mean, without a military its not like they can stop the Ad Mec. Now for something positive: The only way I can see this working (as set out originally, because later edits made it all too weird ;D) is if you claim this as a mini empire and is currently at war with the Imperium.
Side note: All the utopian societies in 40K are Eldar (I think) or the Tau. Not saying that you are setting up a utopian society, but it did pop up in the thread. Tau Anexus = Tau beach head in the Anargo sector, perhaps the Anexus’ have made an alliance with the Tau (who are supporting them).? |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 22, 2004 17:15:17 GMT -5
No military now, they destroyed every thing the grasping greedy Mechanicus were trying to get. then as part of the imperium they get protection and are allowed to raise a PDF.
Not if they were secreted away, and not if the AM thought everything was destroyed, I'm sorry but the AM are not all knowing and all seeing of course Mechanicus propaganda would have you think otherwise.
Nah I can't be fussed with that, its just far to much hassle.
Again nah, they are 100% human or not at all, no xenos contact or dealings
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Post by Philip on Dec 22, 2004 18:30:57 GMT -5
No military now, they destroyed every thing the grasping greedy Mechanicus were trying to get. then as part of the Imperium they get protection and are allowed to raise a PDF. They destroyed sacred technology, a full STC no less (Ad Mec equivalent of the holy grail) and the Ad Mec walk away without taking revenge? If the Anexians destroy all this ‘holy’ technology in front of the Ad Mec, the Ad Mec would destroy the Anexians soon after as Traitors/ Heretics/ both. Those that survived (or captured) would be tortured until the spilled their guts (literally) as the Ad Mec scoured every inch of the would in the vain hope that some valuable piece of technology had been over looked in the wake of the Anexian’s vandalism (as I’m sure the Ad Mec would see the tech as rightfully theirs). A world which had a working STC on it, would become the most interesting world to the Ad Mec, and all the remnants of the technology would be shipped back to Mars for intense study. The Ad Mec would hate the Anexians and would hunt down any who escaped. Hell have no fury… |
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 27, 2004 19:43:50 GMT -5
This is fairly new for me so I'll jump in with CELS' comments since he has a way of summarising things in his posts... I have a big problem with a huge corporation in the Meksum subsector that rivals the Adeptus Mechanicus in terms of technology. Agreed. It would not be possible for such a corporation to exist for any given period of time. While they might be able to get the 'edge', the premise that we have been working with is that they would rapidly be 'taken care off'. This technological homeostasis is required to keep a dynamic adeptus mechanicus without parotting the sometimes glitchy statement that there is "no (technological) advancement in the Imperium." In other words, whilst this corporation might have almost all of the Age of Technology-stuff that is still available to the Imperium, the Adeptus Mechanicus would still be in the lead, in my opinion. Furthermore, the higher the technology of the planet in the G/DAoT, the more likely it is - using the 'standard' assumptions of the 40k universe - to not survive the Age of Strife. Kind of paradoxical that, but it is a common outgrowth of the assumptions of the 'fluff' in terms of the 'feel' of the planets (i.e. fall to barbarism, 'golden age' theory, etc.) and the whole Golden/Stone/Iron Men 'fluff'... Of course, this would be different if the corporation specialised in one or two areas of research, but that's not the impression I'm getting. Again remembering that if they were to really get to grips with the technology then they would receive a knock on the door... As I mention in my article, the Adeptus Mechanicus would definitely have their own Inquisition-like organisation that watches for techno-heresy. Indeed, we have also been working with this premise as a means of making the adeptus mechanicus slightly more interesting! (E.g. technological diffusion, etc.). This way people can have technology of various forms (e.g. the plough!) without it having to be built by a TechPriest! Is it really that likely that this corporation has a lot of stuff that the Adeptus Mechanicus does not? I would say not. I'm of the opinion that the Imperium has the technology to create robots and droids like the Tau, but that they choose not to, because of the Iron Men and the philosophies of the Adeptus Mechanicus. Agreed... for the most part. In terms of the overt representation of technology in the Imperium, true "Machine Intelligence" would be a big no-no, but PI or AI systems (these terms are, for me, the same) such as found in the Land Raider (again, for me) are fine... If couched in the right way to Joe Imperium and the masses that are formed from him/her. That some forces within the Imperium do not feel held back by these restrictions is almost a given. Ix... Does the corporation really have operatives in the Imperial Inquisition? I would say no. At least in positions of significance. Remembering, of course, that the Inquisition is meant to be the last bastion of defence. The idea that it falls to a bit of bribery, or whatever, doesn't seem to smack with how it is commonly represented. Of course, the fact that it is 'corrupted' is a given but the question is what the corporation would offer? 4) Whitey pussy organisation. Am I the only one who finds that name a bit... awkward? <grin> No. But we've got other 'dubious' names for organisations and worlds on the board at the moment. Well, one. Anyway, I have to agree with zholud, and I'm getting increasingly tired of seeing unselfish worlds and corporations with utopic dreams of helping everyone. Amen. That's what made Soul Drinkers a good book... It was never a good book, but had a damn interesting premise... |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 28, 2004 5:49:37 GMT -5
Well that wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, let me summerise my more recent ideas 1) its not going to be in Meksum, and all the worlds the corporation had in that sub sector are being dropped, except for Proculus 2) It will either be moved to Sargassos, or completely out of the sector depending on what me and destecado decide on as the "new" vision for Anexus. 3) any worlds the corporation "owns" will follow their code of conduct and not the imperiums, simply meaning people are respectful of one another, and human life is held to a higher regard, I am not prepared to alter that. It does not mean it is bloody utopian just modern |
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Post by Kage2020 on Dec 31, 2004 0:01:42 GMT -5
its not going to be in Meksum, and all the worlds the corporation had in that sub sector are being dropped, except for Proculus Once more a 'corporation' of the power you're talking about and, further, the extent that you appear to be talking about is not something that I'm particular comfortable with. All of it seems... very powerful. Something that seems so likely to be caught between the hammer and anvil of the adeptus mechanicus and the Inquisition. Which is which I leave up to you on that particular metaphor. It will either be moved to Sargassos... Remembering that a 'proto-hiveworld' is not going to be operable in the Sargassos Gulf. That doesn't preclude the Sargassos subsector, of course. Again, merely linking the 'corporation' to the Mezzan of Destecado does not offer a 'fix' to the problem with the adeptus mechanicus and the whole concept of their technology. Sorry if that was the obvious 'get out clause' with the move to Sargassos. any worlds the corporation "owns" will follow their code of conduct and not the imperiums, simply meaning people are respectful of one another, and human life is held to a higher regard, I am not prepared to alter that. It sounds like you're wanting to build a micro-empire. Since a 'government' of the form you're talking about would be essentially inoperable in the Imperium it would seem that, at this juncture, it becomes merely an outline; not something that requires that much thought. Furthermore, assigning Proculus as a 'member' of the corporation and the government type involved also tends to remove that world from the Imperium and, therefore, as a viable world of a subsector... Or so it would seem. It does not mean it is bloody utopian just modern One has to wonder which world you live on or, alternatively, how you're not completely cynical! (If you hadn't guessed it, this is tongue-in-cheek...) |
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Post by Dazo on Dec 31, 2004 12:18:51 GMT -5
They have the backing of the Inquisition and the Administratum so its really of little consequense what the Mechanicus think, they are servants of the imperium as well so they'll do as they're told and lump it.
And is Macdonalds a micro empire that threatens the stability of human civilisation, I think not. All that happens is the cartels are given mining franchises on the fringes of the empire, hardly cause for concern.
And personally I think my idea has more affinity with the old 40k concept, rather than the new all powerful, all encompassing Imperium of the 4th ED, I would have thought you would have liked to see that sort of thing in Anargo. Are you saying Proculus will not be accepted then.?
I'd rather know now so I dont waste several more months on worlds you have no desire to see here.
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