|
Post by zholud on Sept 8, 2004 5:41:33 GMT -5
Oh, phew, good, good we're all happy no changes excellent Incorrect. I say either set up believable constant threat to Selecans or cut down not only numbers but general military feel. Remember, all empires fell after the former great warriors fell to pleasures of civil life with all those depravities… think about Mongols, Romans, Spanish armada… they all became too soft and fell, within centuries, while you have your military in shape for millennia w/out any good enough reason.
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Sept 8, 2004 5:48:16 GMT -5
There are no threats in meksum, so how can i just invent one to make my concept fit. Fine i'll alter the figures...again Woo hoo legatus, i'd better start getting some respect round here
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Sept 8, 2004 7:59:34 GMT -5
There are no threats in meksum, so how can i just invent one to make my concept fit. It is hard by possible… you have to choose, either more peaceful planet, after all no serious conflict in millennia, unlike e.g. contemporary Earth, or strong guys/gals due to a threat… Ork infestation for example. But show reasons why Orks are here, so far from their usual ways. Fine i'll alter the figures...again Not only figures but e.g. existence of military factories and guns for every adult… Woo hoo legatus, i'd better start getting some respect round here I’m Praefectus Regio, but even this does not give me any respect.
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Sept 8, 2004 9:01:29 GMT -5
I'm just going to dump the lot and move most of these ideas over to Kolkhoz. I'm not happy about this pigeon holing of worlds, just because their main export is agriculture why can't they also make weapons if the resources are available. Its not even them its the company who built weapon factories on the outer world. The main world is primarily geared towards agriculture. It would seem the solution would be to change it from an agri world to a civilised world, but that wasn't really what i had wanted urrgh this is becoming a dead weight. I'll have to think about this
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Sept 8, 2004 10:10:54 GMT -5
I'm just going to dump the lot and move most of these ideas over to Kolkhoz. I'm not happy about this pigeon holing of worlds, just because their main export is agriculture why can't they also make weapons if the resources are available. You misunderstood. Agriworld can make weapons, tanks and warp ships. This takes such a resource as people/labour. If world is set by Administratum as Agriworld than most likely it has a comparative advantage in producing agri-products instead of anything else. Almost every country on the Earth may allow itself to produce jet fighters, but only a few may manufacture the on large enough scale to get some money out of it. Your corporation should have interest in profits and if a world is suited better to produce farming output it does it. You have no surprise in the fact that your world doesn’t produce specialised farming equipment (no mention about it at least) but it runs weapons factory like mad… I understand it’s 40k baby, there is only war and don’t suggest peaceful world full of hippies. You can have military traditions, your IG may be good fighting Orks, but having Agriworld that has more military than agri- stuff in its description… Its not even them its the company who built weapon factories on the outer world. And then families go to local store and buy all these guns – what for? If firm gives them guns – same question. It would seem the solution would be to change it from an agri world to a civilised world, but that wasn't really what i had wanted urrgh this is becoming a dead weight. Think out a threat… maybe its local chaos cult that wasn’t eradicated for millennia (large planet, few people), or some feral Orks that pop up… (same reason).
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Sept 9, 2004 8:57:20 GMT -5
Precisely. For example, Norway is a fairly wealthy country with a great deal of high technology, so we could probably build stealth bombers if we really, really had to. It's just that it's too expensive. If there's one thing I've learned from my lessons in social economy, it is that specialization is cheaper. 40k takes this to the extreme, something that Kage is always quick to counter. ("Why do they have to import those plasma reactors? Why do they get those weapons from the Adeptus Mechanicus" etc) Hmm... did anyone see my point? It's supposed to be here somewhere... oh well.
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Sept 9, 2004 10:19:17 GMT -5
Precisely. For example, Norway is a fairly wealthy country with a great deal of high technology, so we could probably build stealth bombers if we really, really had to. It's just that it's too expensive. Exactly. Moreover, I guess Ukraine, will much less wealth will build up own fighters sooner than Norway – we have some stuff on aircraft constructing from the USSR period, so as you correctly mentioned – specialisation. But, amusingly enough, this does not prevent intra-industry trade as well. I only point on two things - Why every citizen on the planet w/o serious conflicts for 5,000 years (for comparison – it’s from us to early ‘stair’ pyramids) has a gun or two. And the profit-seeking company thinks its better to let them train than work additional hour/day.
- Why would firm prefer them making guns than raising crops? After all there are spare hands on Meksum, which cannot be used in wide-scale agriculture (i.e. no alternative) and who can do stuff really en-masse, millions of tools, not hundreds.
P.S. And don’t mention one on the leave as we cannot/ need not ask him for that stuff. So, no threat?
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Sept 9, 2004 10:39:42 GMT -5
Right then, one question, when an imperial guard regiment is raised do they get posted to a completely different sector. Can I have them raise regiments of guard to fight in Castellan, they hate orks, so would that be a good enough reason for military training. Or their is a suitable world in castellan 11,37,6 - K-V - X966567-0 Ag 503 Im 1A0 This could be their home world which is still under attack. I like the idea of worlds being linked. As seleca III is a different world now they could send guard regiments to old seleca prime, which is rich in resources so the imperium would want to reclaim and repopulate it.
If a world is set by the administratum as an agri world will all tithes be in agroproducts, regardless of whatever else is in the system. What I mean is if they had a resource dense asteroid field which they allowed someone else to mine as long as they got a substantial portion of the profits would the administratum tithe the asteroid field. If not then seleca will be incredibly rich because all they have to do is meet the administratums food quota, any thing else they harvest will be their own yes or no
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Sept 9, 2004 16:28:10 GMT -5
Right then, one question, when an imperial guard regiment is raised do they get posted to a completely different sector. That depends on where they're needed the most. If they're equally in the Castellan sub and the Cruciatine sector, they're sent to whichever is closest, I reckon. They can really be sent anywhere, as long as it's offworld, I believe. It's a good enough reason for military training for the Imperial Guard regiments, not the entire population of Seleca. And yes, you can send regiments from Seleca III to the Castellan sub. You could do this, if Seleca Prime is now contested by orks. Agri-worlds are so specialized that they won't really have the means to have large-scale asteroid mining or industry, because they usually have a very, very low population, and their population is usually very, very busy with agriculture. In a system where there is an asteroid field, a moon or another planet with great mineral wealth, the Imperial world is obviously more likely to become a 'Civilised world' with both agri-culture and mining/industry.
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Sept 10, 2004 3:33:16 GMT -5
Ok If you try out for the Guard you are required to have military training, now depending on how Selecans feel about their homeworld you could get a hell of a lot of people wanting to try to get in. So yes I will re-jig the numbers a little. However if it was set down in law when the world was colonised that people had to have some form of military training why would they have abandoned the old laws especially if it keeps them fit, healthy and virile. It is now Can worlds accept refugees if they require a larger work force. Could the company do that. I can't see the Imperium having a problem with it as it means more people actually working Is this kind of transition allowed in the Imperium, I don't see why an agricultural world couldn't become a civilised world as long as food quotas continued to be met. I mean people still have sex in 40k so populations would rise
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Sept 10, 2004 9:55:13 GMT -5
If you try out for the Guard you are required to have military training, now depending on how Selecans feel about their homeworld you could get a hell of a lot of people wanting to try to get in. So yes I will re-jig the numbers a little. However if it was set down in law when the world was colonised that people had to have some form of military training why would they have abandoned the old laws especially if it keeps them fit, healthy and virile. I seem to remember that corporations are very powerful on Seleca III, so why would they care if their workers are fit and healthy? They don't really have to be. Look at the cheap workforce in Asia and South America. Do you think they're given lots of training to keep them healthy? Yes, of course. One of the benefits from hive worlds, besides mining and industry, is that they constantly produce more humans which can be used as soldiers, colonists or an exportable work force. Unless it profits the Imperium, the population on agri-worlds are not allowed to rise too much. Yes, people have sex, but there are ways for the government to restrict birth. If not, you can always ship people off-world. I imagine that the tithes for agri-worlds are so high that they do not have the freedom to develop their own industry. There are ways an agri-world can become a civilised world though. For one, natural disasters (or wars) can make the world unsuitable for worldwide agriculture. Also, new agri-worlds can pop up nearby that decrease the demand for goods from the original agri-world. If the original agri-world has a lot of mineral resources, this might lead the Imperium to expand mining and industry on this world.
|
|
|
Post by Dazo on Sept 10, 2004 12:35:53 GMT -5
A few people have made that mistake, I blame myself, I will need to make things clearer when I do the revision or drop the idea of the corporation altogether Excellent, as my proto hive has 20 billion more people than zholud would like Does the imperium activly seek to keep each world as an island, is the ultramar model an exception to the imperial rule of divide and dominate Frow what I can tell their are at least 5 other potential agriworlds so that might not be that far fetched. You have been very nurturing of my desire to change the designation of my world do you think it would be better as a more flexible civilised world rather than an out and out agriworld. I mean zholud is already doing an agri world and most of the other worlds in this sub seem to be mining worlds... This is where the other worlds in the system come into their own. Would they be tithed or would the tithe of the main world just be increased to take into account the extra resources being produced.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Sept 10, 2004 15:31:26 GMT -5
A few people have made that mistake, I blame myself, I will need to make things clearer when I do the revision or drop the idea of the corporation altogether Looking forward to reading a complete revision. Really? I'm afraid I haven't noticed. Perhaps it is because we're building more hiveworlds than the sector can support. Erm, that's a question for the Imperium forum, I think It depends on how zholud wants to shape his subsector. Those 5 potential agriworlds could also be 5 hiveworlds (if hiveworlds were more common) or industrial worlds. Considering your own wishes for this world, I definitely think it should be a civilised world. Agri-worlds are highly specialised, and there is little room for military training and Imperial Guard regiments. If I recall correctly, the idea was that the Meksum subsector would have a whole lot of industry and would rely greatly on importing food from other subsectors, such as Dorvastor and Anargo. This might have changed though. Each system has a mainworld which is tithed according to the resources of the entire system. Thus, the Imperial Commander of the mainworld is the Commander of the system, I believe. Naturally, this means that the tithe is increased if the system has plenty of asteroid mining and so on.
|
|
|
Post by zholud on Sept 10, 2004 15:47:02 GMT -5
Uh, again I’ve lost the start of discussion… so, quite briefly. - Military traditions are the way to go, but you have to add feedback, so each generation has warriors, who really fought Orks… I thought about setting island with feral Orks, but dropped this idea – killing Ork infestation in bay only for training is too much. So I guess set system where selecans return from the IG after e.g. 10 years… collect funds on planet to pay through the nose for their return.
- Migration – Imperium is quite unlikely to be interested in uncontrolled migration – chaos cult, infection diseases, heresies… only controlled migration is possible long run solution
- population growth through immigration is possible, but workers are needed not only on this world, and Meksum is against loosing supply of food, so civilised world is opposed
- Mining within the system is controlled by mining planet/asteroid belt governor, set by Administratum.
- Imperium is not stupid and will tithe Agriworld for other goods if they see them fit.
|
|
|
Post by CELS on Sept 10, 2004 16:02:01 GMT -5
Uh, again I’ve lost the start of discussion… so, quite briefly. - Military traditions are the way to go, but you have to add feedback, so each generation has warriors, who really fought Orks… I thought about setting island with feral Orks, but dropped this idea – killing Ork infestation in bay only for training is too much.
It doesn't have to be just for training though. It could be a serious problem. What do you mean by this? [/li][li] Migration – Imperium is quite unlikely to be interested in uncontrolled migration – chaos cult, infection diseases, heresies… only controlled migration is possible long run solution[/quote] What do you mean by uncontrolled and controlled migration? [/li][li] Mining within the system is controlled by mining planet/asteroid belt governor, set by Administratum.[/quote] Is this your personal guess? Can you explain? Even if it's controlled by a governor, I still think the Imperial Commander of the mainworld is in command, and that any industry/mining on asteroids, moons or gas giants is a part of the mainworld's tithe.
|
|