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Philip
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Marine geneseed
« Thread Started on Jan 16, 2005, 10:25am »		[Quote]
Marine geneseed

I was discussing my ideas as to why marines couldn’t have children over on the BL forum, and ended up talking about the function of the geneseed. I wondering what everyone’s view is on this subject.

clicky
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Philip Sibbering
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #1 on Jan 16, 2005, 11:18am »		[Quote]
An interesting topic there Philip.

Not too sure on the science of some of the ideas that you and the other guy have come up with.

I have joined the forums and may visit for a chat after my exams are over.

It is an area of interest for me actually and I have long considered writing a short essay or something on my interpretation of the whole process
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #2 on Jan 16, 2005, 1:02pm »		[Quote]
My secondary school education is getting a bit rusty now but I seem to remember that the bodies and reproductive DNA are different or aleast seperate in some way. I assume that the gene seed overwrites one but not the other.

1) So perhaps they can have children but just not space marine ones.
2) The geneseed overwhelms their system so much that it sterilises them.
3) The changes to body means that they are so different to humans that the genetic material is incompatable. This is perhaps the most likely of all the options, because their are very few speices that can cross breed unless its something remotly similer to them. Even a small change of a couple of persent would be enoght to mess it all up.


Quote:
and ended up talking about the function of the geneseed. I wondering what everyone’s view is on this subject.


On the Geneseed? Its pretty straghtforward, it contains a sort of retro virus that overwrites the genetic structure of the host organsium.

Why a retroVirus rather then anything else? because otherwise it would be imposible to change enoght of the genetic structure to work. A virus can infect the whole body so can more easily be used to change things.

Other than that one use the geneseed does not do much. Its just their to create marines.
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #3 on Jan 16, 2005, 1:22pm »		[Quote]

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Why a retroVirus rather then anything else? because otherwise it would be imposible to change enoght of the genetic structure to work. A virus can infect the whole body so can more easily be used to change things.

It’s not the only way, and I gave vague reference to Meganucleases.

Perhaps I should add that to the original post?

*nips off*
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Philip Sibbering
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #4 on Jan 16, 2005, 3:22pm »		[Quote]
I donn't agree with retroviruses. The host's genetic structure isn't changed - the only different DNA is in the organs and in the free cells floating about.

Raw gene-seed consists of Progenoid Stem Cells which differentiate either into tissues for the implanted organs, or into free germ cells which tinker with the body's hormonal balances and so on to prepare it for implantation. This can be seen in the feverishness and delirium brought on in Space Wolves aspirants, and in the deep incarcerated sleep of the Blood Angels. The action of these cells influences many metabolic processes and reduces the likelihood of organ rejection.
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #5 on Jan 16, 2005, 3:29pm »		[Quote]
There is, however, numerous references to the Marines being genetically "re-engineered" supporting the retrovirus approach. Similarly there are indications in the Ragnar/Space Wolf novels that some from of viral gene techniques are used.

Of course, that's the later 'fluff' and is therefore subject to as much suspicion as the older 'fluff'... ;)
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #6 on Jan 16, 2005, 3:35pm »		[Quote]
Retro-virus wouldn’t really work, not the extent the marines are re-engineered.

Besides retro-virus are so old hat, and are one of those sci-fi staples that stifle thought. ::)
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Philip Sibbering
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #7 on Jan 16, 2005, 3:36pm »		[Quote]
<sigh> Genetic engineering whatever... It was actually supporting your statement, Phillip, even though I think that the idea the Marines are genetically engineered goes against the very concept of the Marines in the first place.

Marines don't have children because they are Marines. It is against tradition and honour of the Chapter, as well as that set down by their forefathers. After all, neither the Emperor nor the Primarchs had children! (Yeah, right, but that's what they might believe.)

Marines can have children, but they don't. Simple. There is absolutely no need to invent a convulated reason surrounding gene or chromosomal resequencing or whatever, just as there is no real need to completely revise... I'll stop there. No point in going on.
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #8 on Jan 16, 2005, 3:43pm »		[Quote]

Quote:
<sigh> Genetic engineering whatever... It was actually supporting your statement, Phillip, even though I think that the idea the Marines are genetically engineered goes against the very concept of the Marines in the first place.

You do have a point, I think in the original fluff there weren’t tampered with genetically, but later they where.


edit - combine;

Quote:
Marines can have children, but they don't. Simple. There is absolutely no need to invent a convulated reason surrounding gene or chromosomal resequencing or whatever, just as there is no real need to completely revise... I'll stop there. No point in going on.

Ya, but it fun.

;D
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Philip Sibbering
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #9 on Jan 16, 2005, 4:01pm »		[Quote]

Quote:

You do have a point, I think in the original fluff there weren’t tampered with genetically, but later they where.

Taking a holistic approach one would combine both versions, obviously.


Quote:
Ya, but it fun.

Yes, there is that. In this case, however, just as with 'Marine strength' I also believe it serves absolutely no purpose and in many ways "debases" the universe and the Marines...

It also means that people can go to ludicrous extremes in creating the Marines, rather than modifying a normal human.
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #10 on Jan 16, 2005, 4:10pm »		[Quote]

Quote:
It also means that people can go to ludicrous extremes in creating the Marines, rather than modifying a normal human.

They could, but I think the way I laid it out in the BL thread gives a more balanced approach, and make the symbiotic geneseed an important and controlling part.

Also the ‘natural’ re-engineering process actually builds and extension on the Y chromosome to activate dormant (junk) genes on the X chromosome. All regulated by the Progenoids.

In many ways, they are still 100% human.

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Philip Sibbering
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #11 on Jan 16, 2005, 4:35pm »		[Quote]
*puts fingers in ears*

LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA...
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #12 on Jan 16, 2005, 5:14pm »		[Quote]
Erm, pretty much agree to that I'm afraid. I don't think that it does anything for 'balance'.
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #13 on Jan 16, 2005, 5:26pm »		[Quote]

Quote:
*puts fingers in ears*

LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING LA LA LA LA...



Quote:
Erm, pretty much agree to that I'm afraid. I don't think that it does anything for 'balance'.


I love a good debate! ;D

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Philip Sibbering
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Re: Marine geneseed
« Reply #14 on Jan 16, 2005, 5:46pm »		[Quote]

Quote:
I love a good debate! ;D


Perhaps you could explain why it is more relevant, then? I really don't feel like going to the BL forums at the moment when discussion can continue here. If nothing else it always gives you more ammunition for the BL thread...
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